u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally fromr/GenZhou
DPRK is being vilified because it was full communist and Americans can’t access resources of DPRK .
China is being vilified because it has grown too much and America fears that it will loose it’s influence when it will become number 1 economy. When they loose their hegemony /superpower status and then world will be transformed into murli polar world and then usa won’t be able to do whatever they want like fabricating lies of WMD to just loot resources of middle eastern countries since last two decades.
Since nobody is above or as equal as powerful as USA so international laws doesn’t apply on it. This fear of loosing superpower status is haunting them all the time , but it can’t do much and only relies on propaganda, but in reality after a decade these propaganda won’t work because by that time china would have surpassed them in economy, as well as they would loose loose in trade war by decoupling with china and inflation will eat their middle classes which will stagnant domestic consumption since USA relies heavily on consumption economy then you will see huge devaluation of USD dollar . I don’t see any good future of USA.
u/REEEEEvolution - originally fromr/GenZhou
The DPRK explicitly states that it is in the phase of socialism.
There is no “full communism”, this would require every state on earth to be socialist with sufficiently developped productive forces.
The DPRK uses a more directed economy, akin the the USSR. This, however is by no means a necessity for a socialist state. During socialism, private industries are to be taken over by degree - what China is doing.
The USSR used a directed economy (which would be a left devisionism) because it basically stood alone and had no one to help them develop their productive forces. Attempts to liberalise the markets in a way China later on did, to make use of foreign capital, were prevented by Cornboys coup and his faction blocking while Stalin was still alive.
u/Luca-511 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Can I annoy you with another question? Alright, so, my understanding of internal Soviet politics post-Stalin is pretty vague, so can you please elaborate on what you said about Khrushchëv and his coup? Would the USSR have had gone the path of China if not for Khrushchëv or am I misintepreting what you said?
u/cfgaussian - originally fromr/GenZhou
There would be no reason for the USSR to go down the path China took if the Khrushchev coup never happened. Furthermore there would also be no reason for China to do what they did in the 1970s if the Sino-Soviet split and Soviet decline never happened. If the USSR stayed on the socialist path that Stalin had set it on, and China remained their staunch ally and close partner, then neither of the two countries would have needed to liberalize and make concessions to the west to attract foreign capital and technology since the USSR would be on par with the most developed western countries and they could be the ones to help China speed up their development instead of China having to pander to western capitalists to do so.
My view is that Opening Up and Reform was something done out of necessity, not because it was inevitable or the most ideal choice for a socialist country to make. But it was the only option China had for developing its productive forces quickly considering the circumstances with the USSR.
What you need to remember is that the USSR had already gone through a phase called the NEP in which they purposely allowed capitalists to operate for economic development.
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Yeah, but everything is owned by state in DPRK,despite they call themselves as juche believer.
They are some form of communist , different from Soviet but Marx told that due to different materialistic condition it become like that. USA think it as communist that’s why they are so much tougher on DPRK .
Yeah, I know that communist is a stateless society. But America sees that since they can’t control or own private property over there so they see it as communist country ans that’s many Americans don’t see china as socialist country and see it as capitalist/State capitalist.
Smooth brain western thinking , everything owned by government is a communist system.
Some form Private ownership and private enterprises allowed is a capitalism system.
That’s not “full communism” (and I’m not even sure it’s true). Full communism would only come after the state has withered away, and that obviously can’t happen in a country under siege by imperialist powers. The DPRK is not operating the way it wants to or the way it intends to in the future. It’s doing its best to survive under intense external pressure while building a state that can transition to socialism when conditions change. Juche is a survivalist ideology because it has to be, and future full communism will look nothing like it.
Now, as to why it’s under such intense pressure - it’s not actually that different from Cuba or most other AES states historically. Vietnam is the exception here, and that’s because they pulled something similar to China: utilizing western capital to build domestic capital while restraining the power of both, but Vietnam made an intentional effort to align with the US post war. Remember that the PRC also invaded Vietnam during the war, and that animosity between the two countries goes back much further than either of their socialist histories. Elements of nationalism remain in both, keeping them from allying fully, but their commitments to socialism and individual success keep them from becoming openly hostile now. They are, thankfully, more friendly than ever in the Xi era.
Vietnam is a little like Yugoslavia in its not-quite-taking sides position. The DPRK, by necessity, is 100% hostile to the US and aligned with China. But if Vietnam had been split so that the part bordering China was socialist and the other part was a US client state, then it would probably look very similar to Korea.
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Dude, I know communism is a stateless society.
But I’m saying from western perspective, because they see even Soviet as communist country despite them never acheiving it and it was a socialist country , same thing like china during mao’s era and most of the people think that, after Dang china changed into a capitalist country .
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally fromr/GenZhou
China is an 18 trillion dollar economy. Vietnam has not even surpassed economy of india. I’m not talking about GDP per capita here. China is growing at much faster rate and they are even inventing and investing huge R&D and resources in hard tech, which means eating Lunch of america and EU countries. ,they know that they cannot compete with china since china has surpassed in AI, 5G, quantum , better space station, modernizing it’s military. So they are heavily demonizing china to isolate it from everyone, but china is only accepting globalization more and more and heavily integrating itself with RCEP country and now they want to join other free Trade agreement too.
Economy is everything and the one who has biggest economy will shape the future and geopolitics of the world.
u/Luca-511 - originally fromr/GenZhou
I think they meant communist as in “lower-stage communist”, aka socialist. It’s an archaic interpretation of the word communist but it’s valid nonetheless, if that’s what they meant.
u/CornusSericea - originally fromr/GenZhou
I assumed they meant that the US considers any left-ish government “full communist” lol US gov doesn’t give a fuck about definitions, if u elect a socialist you’ve gone full communist and need to be invaded
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally from r/GenZhouDPRK is being vilified because it was full communist and Americans can’t access resources of DPRK .
China is being vilified because it has grown too much and America fears that it will loose it’s influence when it will become number 1 economy. When they loose their hegemony /superpower status and then world will be transformed into murli polar world and then usa won’t be able to do whatever they want like fabricating lies of WMD to just loot resources of middle eastern countries since last two decades.
Since nobody is above or as equal as powerful as USA so international laws doesn’t apply on it. This fear of loosing superpower status is haunting them all the time , but it can’t do much and only relies on propaganda, but in reality after a decade these propaganda won’t work because by that time china would have surpassed them in economy, as well as they would loose loose in trade war by decoupling with china and inflation will eat their middle classes which will stagnant domestic consumption since USA relies heavily on consumption economy then you will see huge devaluation of USD dollar . I don’t see any good future of USA.
u/REEEEEvolution - originally from r/GenZhouThe DPRK explicitly states that it is in the phase of socialism.
There is no “full communism”, this would require every state on earth to be socialist with sufficiently developped productive forces.
The DPRK uses a more directed economy, akin the the USSR. This, however is by no means a necessity for a socialist state. During socialism, private industries are to be taken over by degree - what China is doing.
The USSR used a directed economy (which would be a left devisionism) because it basically stood alone and had no one to help them develop their productive forces. Attempts to liberalise the markets in a way China later on did, to make use of foreign capital, were prevented by Cornboys coup and his faction blocking while Stalin was still alive.
u/Luca-511 - originally from r/GenZhouCan I annoy you with another question? Alright, so, my understanding of internal Soviet politics post-Stalin is pretty vague, so can you please elaborate on what you said about Khrushchëv and his coup? Would the USSR have had gone the path of China if not for Khrushchëv or am I misintepreting what you said?
u/cfgaussian - originally from r/GenZhouThere would be no reason for the USSR to go down the path China took if the Khrushchev coup never happened. Furthermore there would also be no reason for China to do what they did in the 1970s if the Sino-Soviet split and Soviet decline never happened. If the USSR stayed on the socialist path that Stalin had set it on, and China remained their staunch ally and close partner, then neither of the two countries would have needed to liberalize and make concessions to the west to attract foreign capital and technology since the USSR would be on par with the most developed western countries and they could be the ones to help China speed up their development instead of China having to pander to western capitalists to do so.
My view is that Opening Up and Reform was something done out of necessity, not because it was inevitable or the most ideal choice for a socialist country to make. But it was the only option China had for developing its productive forces quickly considering the circumstances with the USSR.
What you need to remember is that the USSR had already gone through a phase called the NEP in which they purposely allowed capitalists to operate for economic development.
u/Luca-511 - originally from r/GenZhoutop notch answer
u/hypotheticalcross - originally from r/GenZhouL o l DPRK full communist
u/Jackissocool - originally from r/GenZhouEven the DPRK doesn’t claim that
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally from r/GenZhouYeah, but everything is owned by state in DPRK,despite they call themselves as juche believer.
They are some form of communist , different from Soviet but Marx told that due to different materialistic condition it become like that. USA think it as communist that’s why they are so much tougher on DPRK .
Yeah, I know that communist is a stateless society. But America sees that since they can’t control or own private property over there so they see it as communist country ans that’s many Americans don’t see china as socialist country and see it as capitalist/State capitalist.
Smooth brain western thinking , everything owned by government is a communist system.
Some form Private ownership and private enterprises allowed is a capitalism system.
u/Jackissocool - originally from r/GenZhouThat’s not “full communism” (and I’m not even sure it’s true). Full communism would only come after the state has withered away, and that obviously can’t happen in a country under siege by imperialist powers. The DPRK is not operating the way it wants to or the way it intends to in the future. It’s doing its best to survive under intense external pressure while building a state that can transition to socialism when conditions change. Juche is a survivalist ideology because it has to be, and future full communism will look nothing like it.
Now, as to why it’s under such intense pressure - it’s not actually that different from Cuba or most other AES states historically. Vietnam is the exception here, and that’s because they pulled something similar to China: utilizing western capital to build domestic capital while restraining the power of both, but Vietnam made an intentional effort to align with the US post war. Remember that the PRC also invaded Vietnam during the war, and that animosity between the two countries goes back much further than either of their socialist histories. Elements of nationalism remain in both, keeping them from allying fully, but their commitments to socialism and individual success keep them from becoming openly hostile now. They are, thankfully, more friendly than ever in the Xi era.
Vietnam is a little like Yugoslavia in its not-quite-taking sides position. The DPRK, by necessity, is 100% hostile to the US and aligned with China. But if Vietnam had been split so that the part bordering China was socialist and the other part was a US client state, then it would probably look very similar to Korea.
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally from r/GenZhouDude, I know communism is a stateless society. But I’m saying from western perspective, because they see even Soviet as communist country despite them never acheiving it and it was a socialist country , same thing like china during mao’s era and most of the people think that, after Dang china changed into a capitalist country .
u/Jackissocool - originally from r/GenZhouWell that doesn’t answer OP’s question at all, I guess, because it applies to everything but Vietnam.
u/Technical-Rest1184 - originally from r/GenZhouChina is an 18 trillion dollar economy. Vietnam has not even surpassed economy of india. I’m not talking about GDP per capita here. China is growing at much faster rate and they are even inventing and investing huge R&D and resources in hard tech, which means eating Lunch of america and EU countries. ,they know that they cannot compete with china since china has surpassed in AI, 5G, quantum , better space station, modernizing it’s military. So they are heavily demonizing china to isolate it from everyone, but china is only accepting globalization more and more and heavily integrating itself with RCEP country and now they want to join other free Trade agreement too.
Economy is everything and the one who has biggest economy will shape the future and geopolitics of the world.
u/Luca-511 - originally from r/GenZhouI think they meant communist as in “lower-stage communist”, aka socialist. It’s an archaic interpretation of the word communist but it’s valid nonetheless, if that’s what they meant.
u/CornusSericea - originally from r/GenZhouI assumed they meant that the US considers any left-ish government “full communist” lol US gov doesn’t give a fuck about definitions, if u elect a socialist you’ve gone full communist and need to be invaded