u/11SomeGuy17 - originally fromr/GenZhou
It makes sense. There are older marxists who may hold reactionary views because of both the time they were raised and learning Marxism poorly. Younger ones see the system as shit (its hard not to) but already hold certain reactionary views so seeing the older vulgar materialists wrap working class rhetoric with hate speech resonates with them.
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Correction, Borgia would work with this people as they often border on fascism. There are a few genuine ones who have backwards social views but if they are materialists that can be corrected so working with them is fine but the majority of them go full fascist and choose nationalism over socialism when push comes to shove.
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Yes, so we educate them. That isn’t working with them its teaching and integrating them. These are 2 very different concepts.
I assume you’re talking about Trump supporters now? Most of them think Mexicans are the problem and love capitalism. Even succdems like Bernie are called communists by these people.
We must educate everyone we can but education requires reception to be effective. These people think Bill gates is putting microchips in vaccines so that the “deep state” can track them. People who hold such ridiculous ideas aren’t gonna become communists, ever.
Convert who we can but never waste time with those who don’t care to learn.
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Idk, even basic succdems are really popular. Bernie filled out stadiums. Though he’s not a socialist he did actually push for concessions and people loved it.
The people who are generally disliked are neolibs but everyone hates them. Ask anyone, maga or apolitical and to choose between a Hilary and Bernie presidency or a Biden and Bernie presidency and they are gonna choose Bernie (unless they are an upper-middle class wine mom or something).
You seem pretty obsessed with this whole reaching out to reactionaries thing and sure, giving them the opportunity to be educated is good but no one, especially not reactionaries, are gonna learn without wanting to. Education is an inherently voluntary act, people have to want to learn to do so and most reactionaries don’t want to learn. Meanwhile there are plenty of non reactionary people looking around and asking why everything sucks. We should be there to provide the answers for them because if we don’t reactionaries will.
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Why are you shilling Trump? The truth is neither of us is shilling for either of them, they are just useful data points for the discussion. If you’d like to get bad faith then you can take that to another subreddit and with another redditor.
The establishment is not indicative of the US working class, the establishment is a collection of the richest most well networked assholes in the country representing bourgeois interests. Ofcourse Bernie is too radical for them, everyone left of Regan is a threat to their profit.
Why are reactionaries so necessary to the movement? Name a single successful revolution that was largely made of reformed reactionaries that went anywhere. We need their “enthusiasm” because aparently leftists are husks with no personality? Is that your theory? The Panthers, the Bolsheviks, etc were made up of leftists. They grew out of the most oppressed communities and had more than enough “fervor”.
If you think you can convince proto fascists to drop their insane ideas then great, please do so. Prove me wrong and build a successful revolution but I’m gonna be straight with you here, it won’t work. You’re liable to get shot spouting such rhetoric in such areas but hey, if that’s the hill you want to die on then who am I to stop you? Good luck putting together your proud boy revolution without having fascists take over.
u/rockoman100 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Lenin wouldn’t tail them though. He was quite adept at bringing the proles and peasants out of their more backwards thinking by making sure the vanguard was also an ideological and cultural vanguard.
u/sharingan10 - originally fromr/GenZhou
Reach people where they’re at, gently correct backwards views under the principle of unity-criticism-unity, and work to build dual power while understanding that the proletariat is often messy and rife with contradictions
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally from r/GenZhouIt makes sense. There are older marxists who may hold reactionary views because of both the time they were raised and learning Marxism poorly. Younger ones see the system as shit (its hard not to) but already hold certain reactionary views so seeing the older vulgar materialists wrap working class rhetoric with hate speech resonates with them.
[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou[deleted]
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally from r/GenZhouCorrection, Borgia would work with this people as they often border on fascism. There are a few genuine ones who have backwards social views but if they are materialists that can be corrected so working with them is fine but the majority of them go full fascist and choose nationalism over socialism when push comes to shove.
[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou[deleted]
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally from r/GenZhouYes, so we educate them. That isn’t working with them its teaching and integrating them. These are 2 very different concepts.
I assume you’re talking about Trump supporters now? Most of them think Mexicans are the problem and love capitalism. Even succdems like Bernie are called communists by these people.
We must educate everyone we can but education requires reception to be effective. These people think Bill gates is putting microchips in vaccines so that the “deep state” can track them. People who hold such ridiculous ideas aren’t gonna become communists, ever.
Convert who we can but never waste time with those who don’t care to learn.
[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou[deleted]
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally from r/GenZhouIdk, even basic succdems are really popular. Bernie filled out stadiums. Though he’s not a socialist he did actually push for concessions and people loved it.
The people who are generally disliked are neolibs but everyone hates them. Ask anyone, maga or apolitical and to choose between a Hilary and Bernie presidency or a Biden and Bernie presidency and they are gonna choose Bernie (unless they are an upper-middle class wine mom or something).
You seem pretty obsessed with this whole reaching out to reactionaries thing and sure, giving them the opportunity to be educated is good but no one, especially not reactionaries, are gonna learn without wanting to. Education is an inherently voluntary act, people have to want to learn to do so and most reactionaries don’t want to learn. Meanwhile there are plenty of non reactionary people looking around and asking why everything sucks. We should be there to provide the answers for them because if we don’t reactionaries will.
[deleted] - originally from r/GenZhou[deleted]
u/11SomeGuy17 - originally from r/GenZhouWhy are you shilling Trump? The truth is neither of us is shilling for either of them, they are just useful data points for the discussion. If you’d like to get bad faith then you can take that to another subreddit and with another redditor.
The establishment is not indicative of the US working class, the establishment is a collection of the richest most well networked assholes in the country representing bourgeois interests. Ofcourse Bernie is too radical for them, everyone left of Regan is a threat to their profit.
Why are reactionaries so necessary to the movement? Name a single successful revolution that was largely made of reformed reactionaries that went anywhere. We need their “enthusiasm” because aparently leftists are husks with no personality? Is that your theory? The Panthers, the Bolsheviks, etc were made up of leftists. They grew out of the most oppressed communities and had more than enough “fervor”.
If you think you can convince proto fascists to drop their insane ideas then great, please do so. Prove me wrong and build a successful revolution but I’m gonna be straight with you here, it won’t work. You’re liable to get shot spouting such rhetoric in such areas but hey, if that’s the hill you want to die on then who am I to stop you? Good luck putting together your proud boy revolution without having fascists take over.
u/rockoman100 - originally from r/GenZhouLenin wouldn’t tail them though. He was quite adept at bringing the proles and peasants out of their more backwards thinking by making sure the vanguard was also an ideological and cultural vanguard.
u/sharingan10 - originally from r/GenZhouReach people where they’re at, gently correct backwards views under the principle of unity-criticism-unity, and work to build dual power while understanding that the proletariat is often messy and rife with contradictions
u/Remarkable-Unit9011 - originally from r/GenZhouCareful. Youll get labelled transphobic on twitter.
Twitter. Where writing about identity politics consitutes a 140 character revolution.
u/Revnow2 - originally from r/GenZhoutransphobia seems to be tolerated among the left. It’s homophobia that gets people cancelled. Look at Dababy.
u/Remarkable-Unit9011 - originally from r/GenZhouI have absolutely no idea who that is