PHILADELPHIA — Last week, a local Indiana chapter of Moms for Liberty attracted attention for quoting Adolf Hitler in its newsletter. After the local paper reported the story, the group added additional “context” but kept the quote. Eventually, after it faced even more scrutiny, the organization removed the quote and apologized in a statement posted to its Facebook group.
That, however, was a big mistake, according to advice at the Moms for Liberty national conference’s media training session Friday.
“Never apologize. Ever,” said Christian Ziegler, the chairman of the Florida Republican Party. “This is my view. Other people have different views on this. I think apologizing makes you weak.”
He advised the attendees to instead make it clear that the Hitler comment was “vile” but to immediately pivot to make the point that Hitler indoctrinated children in schools and that that’s what Moms for Liberty was fighting against. Ziegler warned that any apology would become the headline, so that should be avoided.
You read that right. He said to not apologize for quoting Hitler. That’s what we’re dealing with now.
I wish these vile people would just crawl back into the holes they crawled out of.
I rarely agree with or endorse or agree with violence. But the rise of the far-right shitbirds has really led me to believe that perhaps General Sherman really should’ve gone all the way to the sea.
If I learned anything from playing Civilzation, even when you win a neighoring city over to your side with culture or trade alone, they’re always going to be a problem. It’s better to just raze the whole damn thing to the ground and start over in the same spot.
edit: I also won’t fall victim to the paradox of tolerance. Punching Nazis is a net good. Superman does it, after all.
Get money out of politics. The Republicans fund these groups so they can push hate while maintaining plausibile deniability. Moms for Liberty can’t exist solely on grassroots funding. They are being paid by the richest among us to spread hate and keep us distracted from class warfare.
Now I’m doing a triple reply but I think it needs to be said.
There’s a huge difference between tolerating intolerance and tolerating the intolerant.
Right now I’m doing the best I can to be tolerant of you. But I will not tolerate your intolerance. It is utterly unacceptable.
Your comment which kinda jockingly advocates for genocide is one of the top voted comments on this thread.
Personally, I think you should be ashamed of this. And of this community.
I propose that to help make things better, you should perhaps apologize.
I agree. Based on your downvotes though, it seems the Reddit-liberal-never-does-wrong echo chamber persists.
Bro literally called for genocide, on a post about Hitler (someone hated for genocide), where the people quoted in the article said to not let the government indoctrinate your children, as it was a strategy Hitler used.
It literally cannot get any more ironic.
It literally cannot get any more ironic.
You missed the part where this particle gripe is how someone is refusing to apologize for wrongdoing. And they be out here doubling down on their stances that calling for genocide is perfectly fine if you label the people you want to genocide as Nazis.
The levels of irony here are shooting through the roof. And they seem to be doing it all with a straight face too.
I’m searching so hard for the slightest whiff of sanity and I’ve found absolutely nothing yet.
Edit: I want to add that I honestly can’t tell. Do they not realize that they’re essentially doing most of the most egregious things that they accuse their political opponents of doing? Or are they just trolling me?
Replying to your edit:
edit: I also won’t fall victim to the paradox of tolerance. Punching Nazis is a net good. Superman does it, after all.
You’re literally “jokingly” advocating for GENOCIDE!! What is wrong with you? Can’t you tell the difference between punching someone in the face, and murdering an entire population over a political disagreement?
And instead of at the very least qualifying your statement saying “It’s a joke, obviously I don’t mean this should be taken literally and I’m just venting without really noticing the full ramifications of what I’m saying”. Or something to that effect. You just double down on defending your statement.
At least when the Moms of Liberty were accused of supporting the Hitler quote, the modified their news letter to be double extra clear that they were condemning the Hitler quote. You can’t even do that much…
Lol he really hit a nerve😂 General Sherman is dead geniuses.
TLDR: If you find yourself defending the person hyperbolically calling for genocide against the person condemning it. It might be time to ask yourself “Are we the baddies?”
I can’t bring myself to give an actual example. But imagine this scenario, I’m hanging out with a couple of work colleagues. Let’s call them fixtionalJake and BroBroBro. Now were just chatting something comes up about all the vandalism that black people did during the BLM protest and fixtionalJake makes an obviously hyperbolic comment proposing that all black people should get murdered or that their ancestors should have. But the comment is a little bit indirect, and clearly absurdly impossible to implement. BroBroBro is laughing along.
I’m standing there thinking, that is some seriously messed up racist stuff right there. For sure fixtionalJake is a least a little bit racist, but maybe he didn’t quite understand how it came across.
So I say dude that was f’ed up that the most racist thing I ever heard, what the hell is wrong with you? His response is: “I’m not gonna get caught by this dumb rhetoric, if someone commits a crime, you put them in jail don’t you?”
Everyone in the company up to the vice precident smile, and agrees. BroBroBro, knows which the tide is turning and he wants to fit in, so he adds: “Yeah dufus, that thing he said is obviously impossible to do, what are you, ‘stupid’?”
I suspect that if you were in my place you would just conclude that both those guys and pretty much the entire company are at the very list raging racist assholes.
But not me, I have faith in humanity. Yes, every single thing they’ve done is consistent with raging racist assholes. It’s even consistent with the behavior of people who are genuinely hoping to find a way to genocide every black person.
But BroBroBRo’s behavior is also consistent with that of someone who’s just a little bit clueless and just a little bit too desperate to fit in. It’s probably consistent with many other kinds of behavior.
fixtionalJake is 99% chance a raging racist asshole, but maybe not really a genocidal one though. I mean he could, but it’s also possible that he’s not.
Either way, I’m quitting my job, working triple time for the competition at half pay. Just in case. just to make sure they don’t get the to snowball the funds to actually do it.
And that’s how I justify my behavior of posting all over this thread. Just in case. I want everyone to understand that indiscriminately killing all far right wingers is an abhorrent and evil thing to do. And I don’t want this to be a place where you can dog-whistle-advocate for such killings without getting called out on it.
It occurs to me there is no precedent for you to infer genocide from this joke, though. Sherman committed no genocide.
If I learned anything from playing Civilzation, even when you win a neighoring city over to your side with culture or trade alone, they’re always going to be a problem. It’s better to just raze the whole damn thing to the ground and start over in the same spot.
That’s genocide.
That’s not what he suggested to be done in real life. That’s a point about being unable to strike a balance between two groups who do not see eye to eye. His only real life suggestion was that a general should’ve continue his efforts further towards the sea. That’s not genocide, that’s simply war.
No one is calling for actual genocide. You’re condemning a joke, not the actual act. It’s not that serious, thus I truly can’t bring myself to read this fully.
Your hypothetical is racist. I would take issue with the racism.
They won’t. Fascists have to be beaten back into these holes with the biggest, thorniest stick one can find.
They never learn, they infest innocent minds and laugh in your face when you call them out.
Meanwhile, the LGBTQ+(MAP) community is chanting…
We’re coming for your children, we’re here, we’re queer.
Fuck off with that shit. Map was something right wingers made up, no liberal believes map is real, dumbass.
Uh-oh. Lefty can’t face reality and results to cursing and name-calling. Big surprise!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjHyHsy7XAU
She certainly looks like a lefty, talks like a lefty, probably weighs the same as a duck. Thus, shes made of wood.
Big talk from someone who’s leader openly talks about raping his daughter lmao
So, after viewing what America News has posted, it looks like it’s some garbage fear mongering shit posting channel. Congrats on consuming fake garbage, hopefully the rest of your opinions haven’t become twisted.
Unfortunately, maps is fake and made up by 4chan. But, like you’re the type of person to have their ideals challenged and change lmao
https://youtu.be/UjHyHsy7XAU too hardcore liberal for you?
Also, not sure who you think my “leader” is. strange to call a democratic republic’s presidential candidates the “leader” though. Maybe that’s the communist in you who would rather be voting for a “supreme leader” like N.Korea?
I vote libertarian and never win. 👍
I vote libertarian and never win.
That’s because pretty much no one wants the world to be like the handful of libertarians out there want it to be.
Most people like the fact that their taxes go to keeping the roads paved and the meat inspected. But you do you.
Not sure what you’re talking about. Providing context is preferable if you’re going to even pretend to take yourself seriously, friend.
More importantly this:
This is my view. Other people have different views on this. I think apologizing makes you weak.
This is what cultivates the “never admitting wrong and always attempting to be right” on literally everything. Making people afraid or scared to be “wrong” is absolutely the most incorrect thing possible. We learn best when we self identify our own mistakes.
This whole mentality is literally the number one thing I hear people hate the most on the Internet. Trial and error is a fundamental method of problem solving and if you teach people that being wrong is “weak” then you literally subvert the most basic ability to problem solve.
There could not have been a more wrong bit of advice this person could have given. This is literally the number one thing that makes public discourse even harder to do. My bit of free advice is to literally NOT view apologies as weakness. You will always be an infinitely better person if you just simply DO NOT DO this one thing that Christian Ziegler has indicated.
apologies are strength. admitting you were wrong is strength. changing your mind when new facts are available is strength.
it’s easy in the short term to not apologise. it’s easy to just say no. it’s short sighted, it’s incredibly dumb, and it shows how weak you truly are: unable to display even the most basic of human decency.
Please help me understand. They used the quote in the newsletter to bring attention to the viewpoint of one of, if not the worst world leader in recent human history. They simply stated the quote; something along the lines of he who controls the youth controls the future. They followed the quote by saying to not let the government indoctrinate your children. Hitler, the highest member of the government, indoctrinated children.
How is it bad to say to not follow in Hitler’s footsteps?
Because to say this is bad advice is to say the government should be allowed to indoctrinate your children.
Do you think maybe they should have said not to follow in his footsteps? Because they didn’t. They just put the quote in huge letters in an isolated box at the top of their newsletter. Which sure looks like an endorsement.
“But guess who it is that I see acting in bad faith right now? You.”
Yeah, can you explain this a bit more?
Yes I can. But also, I have to apologize, saying “bad faith” was definitely going a bit too far. What you’re doing is being exceedingly and ironically uncharitable.
I’m guessing that the Moms of Liberty have quite a lot of statements to make the but the one in the newsletter that contained the quote was about giving parents more control over their children’s education. THAT is the topic of discussion (or at least what they present as their side of the discussion, their true agenda may differ).
Opponents to Moms of Liberty are derailing the topic of discussion by making it about quoting Hitler. This particular article quotes a member of Moms of Liberty advocating for not apologizing, because if they apologize that will become the story instead of the actual thing she wanted to talk about.
Then you come on here and say, don’t let them derail the conversation by bringing it back to the thing they actually want to talk about.
In contrast, you’re associating me with some quote about killing “far-right shitbirds” because…why? I’m not seeing the logic of the association between me and that quote or about how I’m acting in bad faith.
Because it is a quote by someone on this very thread with 14 upvotes. This is a member of your community and they’re popularly supported and you’ve done nothing to reign them in.
What exactly do you expect us to do to rein them in? What power do you think we have?
At the very least downvote it. There’s now EIGHTEEN upvotes, 2 boosts, and I’m still the only downvote on that comment. And I know people can find the downvote button because I can see how many downvotes I’m getting.
Moderators here don’t have a rule against calls for violence. I already reported it, but technically it’s not against the rules. Which I can understand in a politics magazine where war can be a topic of discussion, you don’t want to be banning people when for example the government is actively engaging in mass murder (e.g. like the Rwanda genocide) and a commenter is saying that the people should defend themselves with lethal force if necessary.
EDIT: Also my post was intended as a reply to someone else, I’m still getting used to the UI can accidentally making a top level comment instead of a reply.
As the sidebar says:
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement.
The quality of my comments have been so abysmal I see. And jokingly calling for genocide is one of the best quality comments on this thread.
You keep coming back to defending their Hitler quote. As if it’s ever okay to quote Hitler regardless of context. You want us to discuss instead… Actually I can’t really figure out what you want us to discuss. But you want us to ignore the Hitler quote. You said that multiple times now. I think anybody who’s quoting Hitler should not be given the forum for debate. I’m not one that call a lot of people Nazis just for the hell of it, but if you’re quoting Hitler… Well then you’re a Nazi sympathizer at a minimum. I have no interest in what else you want to say after that point.
