Since my last post yesterday, lemmy.world has added over 3000 new users, bringing the total user count to 22000 today (source: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list). It firmly holds the position of the second-largest lemmy instance, passing beehaw.org by a large margin of 10000 users.

In other news, beehaw has defederated from lemmy.world a few hours ago. How does the third-largest instance only have 4 mods admins for its 12000 users?!

So much going on!

    • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
      292·
      1 year ago

      Beehaw never wanted to be “reddit but federated”. It has always wanted to be a nice community with certain ideals. Defederating servers with a shortage of moderators has to be done or for those ideals to be worth anything.

      • EnglishMobster@kbin.social
        15·
        1 year ago

        It seems odd to me that Beehaw would choose a federated model if this is truly their approach.

        The whole point of federation is that you’ll have everyone from everywhere in your community, with exceptions for bad actors.

        If Beehaw says “We want our community to be unified and work exactly as we say” it just seems like they should have forked Tildes or something?

        I was talking to one of the Beehaw admins the other day and I think they mentioned they came from Tildes because they disagreed with how Deimos was running things or something like that. But Tildes is open-source and non-federated, so it seems like the more natural place to jump to for what they want to do?

        • FeenisBoobicus@kbin.social
          7·
          1 year ago

          Yeah, why pioneer a free and open platform just so you can curate a censored and closed echo chamber? That’s why I chose Kbin, ernest seems much more interested in the success and development of the community and platform than enforcing whatever flavor of ideology.

            • bdonvr@thelemmy.clubEnglish
              6·
              1 year ago

              Now that BeeHaw has defederated, they won’t see any comments from lemmy.world/shitjustworks users in their own communities.

              If they kept federation, those users would be able to comment on beehaw.org communities.

            • whatyousaidontwitter@lemm.eeEnglish
              5·
              1 year ago

              Sorry for the confusion, I meant that, if they didn’t defederate and their users just kept on their ‘local’ feed, they’d still see outside comments.

        • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
          10·
          1 year ago

          The problem is that if you filter by “local”, you don’t just get comments and posts from your instance. You get content from local communities.

          All the spam and rule breaking accounts still make it through to the communities on beehaw.

            • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
              161·
              1 year ago

              If this is anything like the mastodon.social debacle, things will probably settle down eventually. Moderation tools will be built, the more moderators will compensate for the explosive growth, and in time federation will probably happen again. It’s a real shame, but with 22k users moderated by 4 admins just isn’t going to prevent toxicity and abuse from spreading.

              I also think things would significantly improve if users were able to block whole instances (say, lemmygrad, exploding-heads, etc.) instead of having to rely on moderators to take full defederation action.

              The defederation risk is one of the reasons I’ve chosen to host my own instance (though that means I’ll never make it into the whitelist-only federated lemmies). I can hardly disagree with the Beehaw admins at this stage, but it’s still a shame to see it happen.

            • Senokir@lemmy.worldEnglish
              8·
              1 year ago

              You should still be able to view and comment on beehaw as normal so you don’t have to miss those communities. Defederation is a one way street. So it’s just like lemmy.world doesn’t exist as far as beehaw is concerned. We can’t have any impact on their vote counts from their perspective, they won’t see our comments regardless of the instance it’s posted on, they can’t visit any communities from lemmy.world, etc. But unless lemmy.world defederates from beehaw we will still be able to view, vote on, comment on, etc anything from beehaw as normal. It’s just that you are less likely to get any sort of interaction so you are disincentivized from doing so. Technically we could still comment on a beehaw post and anyone from lemmy.world or any other instance that hasn’t defederates with us would still be able to see and reply to that comment.

              Edit: for anyone reading this, the truth is somewhere in between. See the link to the post in the comment below mine to get more clarification.

              • foggenbooty@lemmy.worldEnglish
                3·
                1 year ago

                That’s very interesting. I didn’t realize it worked that way. You’re saying when one instance comments on a external instance the comment itself is still hosted by the first instance? It is hosted in the first instance and and update is sent to the external instance which would host a duplicate copy (but in this case is rejected)?

                I’ve read most of the Lemmy documentation but these nuances of the architecture aren’t well covered.

                Edit: just found this post which clarifies it all: https://lemmy.world/post/149743

    • Celivalg@iusearchlinux.fyiEnglish
      7·
      1 year ago

      Nah, de-federation means they won’t be seeing anything from lemmy.world on:

      • local posts
      • lemmy.world posts

      They will still see lemmy.world comments on other instances, but lemmy.world posts won’t appear on the ALL sorting.

      In the same way lemmy.world won’t be able to see beehaw posts.

      Basically,

      • local only concerns posts that have been submitted on beehaw communities
      • All concerns posts submitted on any instance that is federated and to which at least one user on the instance is subbed to.
    • Kichae@kbin.social
      5·
      1 year ago

      No, they can choose to see content from local communities. The users posting in those communities, and the people commenting on those posts, can still come from any federated site.

  • Fake4000@lemmy.worldEnglish
    38·
    1 year ago

    A lot of users joined Lemmy.world due to the open sign ups. Whether they will be lurking or not remains to be seen.

  • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
    27·
    1 year ago

    Joining a website is fun. Moderating a website is not.

    We’ve seen this growth with Mastodon and mastodon.social got defederated for a while because of the lack of effective moderation tools. I’m surprised it has only taken this long for this to happen on Lemmy.

      • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
        13·
        1 year ago

        Everyone joined mastodon.social, especially the low effort shitposters and other people who aren’t wanted on many servers. Having to figure out what instance to choose filtered those out, I suppose.

        Mastodon eventually got media rejection and limiting (“silencing”) support for entire domains. Media rejection is important because Mastodon copies all media onto their local storage (including the nasty illegal stuff from other hosts) and silencing is the solution to “this instance is creating too much abuse but we still want the good folks on that server to be able to follow our local users”. Limited users (and domains) can still be followed and interacted with, but they won’t pop up unless you seek them out. It’s the better alternative to blocking all mostly-unmoderated servers; that’s the server wide moderation method Lemmy can do right now.

          • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
            6·
            1 year ago

            You’ll have to check the Github issue list and pull requests for that, I don’t know. The massive influx of Reddit refugees has put a lot of attention on Lemmy but in terms of development they’re still quite a small team, so it’s possible these changes will take a while. There’s a huge backlog of work, dating back years in some cases.

            Hopefully the newfound popularity will also attract developers to speed up the improvements.

            • admin@fediverse.boo
              31·
              1 year ago

              There is also the sister project kbin.social, it pulls in Lemmy and Mastodon content. We’re currently working on getting more instances set up for kbin and there are more features being added as well. kbin.social is the “main instance” but I think there are like 10 or 15 now in total that have been spun up.

              I believe this is the link that shows the other instances: https://the-federation.info/platform/184 (I’m not 100% sure because it appears to be down at the time of me writing this comment)

              bug/feature requests for kbin: https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core

              • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
                1·
                1 year ago

                Kbin is also very interesting, but less prevalent. I considered setting up kbin instead of Lemmy but when I did so kbin still boosted every single upvoted comment which would make interaction with Mastodon users very unpleasant. That has since changed, I believe.

                I’m still not entirely sure if I want to put in the effort of migrating (Lemmy related app development seems more active) but who knows! I’ll just wait and see how things pan out I guess.

            • admin@fediverse.boo
              11·
              1 year ago

              There is also the sister project kbin.social, it pulls in Lemmy and Mastodon content. We’re currently working on getting more instances set up for kbin and there are more features being added as well. kbin.social is the “main instance” but I think there are like 10 or 15 now in total that have been spun up.

              I believe this is the link that shows the other instances: https://the-federation.info/platform/184 (I’m not 100% sure because it appears to be down at the time of me writing this comment)

              bug/feature requests for kbin: https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core

        • bdonvr@thelemmy.clubEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          As I understand it, on Lemmy media is hosted on your instance only. When you see a picture from a user on another instance, you’re loading it from their instance.

          • Skull giver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nlEnglish
            1·
            1 year ago

            That’s true! But I was trying to answer the question regarding Mastodon.social. All Lemmy media is indeed hosted only on Lemmy, unless a Mastodon user boosts it (then Mastodon will also host a copy).

        • Edgerunner Alexis@dataterm.digitalEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          It would be amazing if Lemmy implemented silencing/muting instances, it would make a great middle ground between fully federating or defederating so that it’s less binary and absolutist, and allows more individual freedom within mod actions. I think having a spectrum of choices when it comes to interaction will help social media networks a lot, because it means there are more ways to deal with problems and it more mirrors real life social groups, which means the dynamics are less artificial and distorted.

  • DeadGemini@lemmy.oneEnglish
    15·
    1 year ago

    Sheesh, glad BeeHaw rejected my signup then. I don’t mind seeing toxicity and trolling, I want to be able to see as much of the content posted as possible without too many restrictions. They can have their safe space, I have no problen with that at all and I understand the necessity, but for me I want to see both the beautiful and the ugly.

      • raresbears@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
        10·
        1 year ago

        I mean they just defederated from two of the biggest instances (including lemmy.world) and have the largest list of blocked instances of any instance

  • cura@lemmy.worldEnglish
    14·
    1 year ago

    I saw on one of their post that they now have 36 mods, but I guess that’s still not enough.

  • wrath-sedan@kbin.social
    12·
    1 year ago

    Exciting to see such incredible growth in such a short time! I do feel like that until moderation tools improve some instances might do something similar to beehaw. Given beehaw noted it was hopefully a temporary solution and they have stricter content guidelines than most instances.

  • LostCause@kbin.social
    7·
    1 year ago

    The growth right now is crazy, my chosen site/instance/? is struggling to stay up. I‘m really excited for this like I haven‘t been for any website in a good decade.

    • MicroWave@lemmy.worldOP
      8·
      1 year ago

      What’s your chosen instance? And yeah, I haven’t been this excited since the whole digg vs. reddit switch back in 2010. And then there’s mastodon this past year. I remember reading about needing decentralized social media back then, and now it’s finally here.