What? Prions suddenly being in dirt instead of a human being doesn’t kill them, there’s a whole thing with Mad Cow and soil from the UK as i recall. Part of why they’re so fucking horrible is that you practically can’t kill Prions.
Obscenely high temperatures are required.
The rich should be turned into fuel pellets instead.
Composting is a specific set of chemical processes that take place in a hot, highly oxygenated environment with the proper mix of nutrients for microbial growth. It is not comparable to ordinary decomposition in soil.
Composting can destroy prions, but it might be different to ensure you’ve destroyed all of them. Read more here: https://www.beefresearch.ca/fact-sheets/can-composting-destroy-bse-prions/
PS: I think it’s not good to joke about killing people, even shitty people.
To be fair, nobody said you had to kill them.
Just cut off parts as needed for food, or bury them in a deep composting pit.
At that point, they might die, but that’s on them for not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.
I’m not sure you want any of it for food if there’s a risk of prions
Eh, the risk isn’t exactly high. Totally worth it for some fresh long pig
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Who’s joking about it?
This is a war, people die in war. If our enemy doesn’t want to die, let them forfeit their “power” and surrender.
I think you will find that war isn’t a very useful metaphor for this kind of conflict. … you get that it’s metaphorical, right?
Does it really have to be? A class war (as actual war) has to be better than any other sort of war
Well, I was trying to be charitable. People who seriously want to murder people they’ve never met have serious emotional problems and should seek therapy.
It’s not about wanting to murder people you’ve never met, it’s about wanting to defend yourself and others.
These people are actively waging class war against us, they hold all the power while letting the planet be destroyed.
It is imperative they go ASAP, if they won’t go voluntarily the other option is by force.
We’re running out of a future to debate this.
It’s not at all the same. Violent self defense is acceptable because it’s an instantaneous decision with few options and no time to consider alternative strategy. It’s not because murdering bad people is totally fun and cool and you should do it any time it seems convenient.
Yes, bad things are happening, and radical actions are justified, if they improve the situation, and if less harmful options are unavailable or ineffective. But we could spend the entire next year debating and discussing how to defeat and destroy the power of the rich, and if we come away with a successful strategy, everything would be fine. It’s not the same as Elon Musk cornering us in a dark alley with a gun. The people collectively have far more power than the ruling class, and that power, in the present time, is most effectively wielded non-violently. We still have plenty of time and power to act, if we organize.
I don’t find this argument that going on a murder-rampage is the best strategy compelling at all. This type of behavior has never produced better living conditions any time in history that I can think of. These violent fantasies have nothing to do with the organization and action that will solve our problems, and instead act as strange fantasies for disturbed people, and to convince people that leftists are all violent weirdos. It’s actually completely counterproductive towards building the movement we need.
This type of behavior has never produced better living conditions any time in history that I can think of.
What are you on about? It’s the reason why we live in the conditions that we do.
People used to literally kidnap and kill CEO’s, that’s how we got workers rights, marginalised/discriminated groups have had to continuously protest and riot to bring attention to their causes and get changes either systemic or social enacted or discussed.
No, we have these rights because people exercised collective power in an organized and strategic manner. Including, yes, disruptive acts of protest which if you had asked instead of trying to shift the goal posts to, you would find that I support.
The isolated cases of lone wolf killings were not frequent enough to have any real effect but what effect it did have was to cause fear and division among the people we need to organize, and to give rhetorical weapons to the powers that be.
You actually literally can’t kill prions, they aren’t alive, they’re basically the virus debate’s bastard older brother with a rap sheet that’s just a list of all the people they’ve sent to the hospital, and then followed up bankrupting the hospital because literally everything that victim touched has to be scrapped because hospitals usually don’t have the tools required to break down prions enough for it to be safe to keep anything that might have gotten the patient’s prions on it.
Misfolded proteins if I remembered right, and Auroclaves (and tools that can survive it) probably ain’t cheap.
Surgical tools can be autoclaved, not really big things like beds.
Auroclaves
The definition makes it sound like a fancy pressure cooker.
Guess we can just use a really heavy duty pressure cooker to cook the stuff before composting it?
Ugh. I hate being that guy, and I realize it’s a meme, not science, but I can’t leave it alone.
Composting doesn’t get rid of metals, so you’d need a way to deal with them if you wanted to be safe.
I got it. Force the rich to eat each other until the problem solves itself.
No, it would increase concentrations. You need to get the rich to launch themselves into the sun
So.
We force them to eat each other until their concentrations are high enough to extract the metals for industrial uses.
That’s a feature.
We force them to gorge on themselves until there’s one, inbred, leaded rich guy left. Then we put it on display as a warning to everyone else
Unfortunately that’s all they want too. There method requires enslaving everyone until their rule and have us kill ourselves for their pile of wealth first
We’re halfway there; many of the rich want desperately to strap themselves on top of a million tons of explosives in the shape of a penis. All we have to do now is convince them that there are poor people with money on the sun, and they’ll trip over each other to be the first to steal from the poor sun-people.
Especially if the compost is used for mushrooms. They have tendency to absorb heavy metals from the ground so you have to be careful where you pick them from and what kind of compost you use if growing at home.
Most plants that we eat are excellent at taking up heavy metals too - potatoes and herbs especially.
I didn’t know that! Thanks for sharing that info.
I was really into growing culinary mushrooms for awhile was cautioned about my compost choices and to avoid fish based ones because mushrooms absorb mercury(and others like cadmium) particularly well. I didn’t know potatoes and herbs did that too
also doesn’t remove prion diseases
Not that I disagree with you, but it doesn’t make sense that they are stable in soil given that they are proteins, and those are relatively quickly decomposing in soil.
(Don’t) Ask me how I know.
Prions are quite stable, and also they don’t need to stay in the soil for long, just enough to get reconsumed. Supposedly that’s how CWD (chronic wasting disease, not coarse woody debris), is spread among deer.
Edit: in context with composting, overall temps would be higher in such a pit but not by much. Its anywhere from room temp to 140F/60C. Prion destruction is a lot higher temp wise. As for bacteria in the pile, maybe? It might be more likely to become meaningfully degraded in a compost pile instead of normal soil.
As for cwd prion bio accumulation, it’s been hypothesized but not demonstrated (like grass picking it up from the soil itself). It’s spread in saliva and indirectly from the environment which is probably why you shouldn’t feed deer in areas with cwd and explains a lot of the spread. Also apparently the scrapie prion can endure for 16 years. Wtf.
How do you know the acronym CWD -> coarse woody debris? That’s not one most people are aware of
I’m an ecology major and that came up a lot in the papers I read. It largely shows up in forest ecology papers, which should have an overlap with chronic wasting disease, considering that deer populations have had this for a while and deer play a huge role in forest ecology.
First time my senior seminar class encountered it in an assigned paper, we all asked why that particular acronym.
It’s been largely a meme in that seminar class as a result.
That’s amazing. as you can probably guess, my background is in reclamation, so we use CWD a lot to create microsites, and control the speed of water across the landscape
That’s super cool. What would be the impact of the CWD with controlling the speed of water on the surroundings? Id assume probably erosion reduction would be the goal?
a quick look at wikipedia will show you are wrong
“In 2015, researchers at The University of Texas Health Science Center at Houston found that plants can be a vector for prions. When researchers fed hamsters grass that grew on ground where a deer that died with chronic wasting disease (CWD) was buried, the hamsters became ill with CWD, suggesting that prions can bind to plants, which then take them up into the leaf and stem structure, where they can be eaten by herbivores, thus completing the cycle. It is thus possible that there is a progressively accumulating number of prions in the environment.”
I said I don’t see how (mechanism). I’m not wrong about proteins breaking down fast in soil
Proteins are also typically denatured by heat, and yet cooking does not remove prions. Prions are hard to get rid of.
Okay but if we’re going to be that guy, “eat the rich” doesn’t mean consume their flesh.
Mortician here!
Recomposition (or Natural Organic Reduction) is already legal in several states: California, Washington, Vermont, Oregon and Colorado!
As of right now, I think the compost is only allowed in national and state parks, but they’re doing testing on farms to check if there’s dangers to us consuming the crops and it’s been very successful and safe.
Most diseases and viruses can’t survive the composting heat and the plants are thriving. It uses 87% less energy than cremation and burial and stops embalming fluids from leaking into our ground water. I’m really glad this is an option.
There’s a scam company that claims you can put cremated remains in the ground and grow a tree… yeah, cremated remains turn into concrete when wet and the heat of cremation denatures nearly everything beneficial for plants. We constantly have to tell people not to put cremated remains on plants or the plants will join the family member that passed…
With the disclaimer that I don’t know anything about your field…
IMO, if eating food that was nourished by dead humans was inherently unsafe, I believe we would have had significant issues well before now. I have no doubt that when agriculture was new, cemeteries and areas where people have died and left to decompose, would have been used to grow food and if it created any problems, I think we would have seen issues before now.
Again, I’m not a farmer, mortician, scientist, or any other preceived or direct authority on the subject.
What you’ve said is true. In my forensics class, we learned that police can actually use plants to find dead bodies, because you can see a noticeable oval of healthier plant growth. Older cemeteries flourish. There’s a few stories from the Neolithic Era about planting crops on the deceased, both humans and animals, but it’s mostly been erased from history. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s happened during Famines or situations like the dust bowl where civilizations weren’t rotating crops and depleted the soil.
I heard there was a time when cemetery grass is premium for farmers with grazers
How is that supposed to remove lead and mercury from the food supply? If you use that as fertilizer, the heavy metals will still be in there, and likely get picked up by your crops…
#mulchtherich
A hashtag I can get behind
Make sure to have some rolly polies in your compost heap to eat the rich 🍽 those little guys can remove heavy metals from the corpses of the bourgeoisie 😋
Better to phytoremdiate with sunflowers or other hyper accumulators, and then landfill the biomass
Notice how everyone knows what is needed to be able to eat or mulch a person, but no-one is directly mentioning the part about killing being required.
I don’t know why we need euphemisms for this. Genuinely I’m asking, not presenting an opinion.
It would be very crass indeed to talk about killing the rich, but the cold hard fact is that if psychotic people are leading the entire planet to get properly fucked, it’s the moral thing to do to get rid of them somehow.
Obviously humanitarian values hold that one shouldn’t kill needlessly.
I guess “eat the rich” reminds us of what we need to do and why; because the poor are hungry for the resources the fucked up rich people are hoarding. It’s also very clearly implied that we could kill the rich, but that we’re willing to avoid it if our hunger gets sated some other way.
In other words “hey rich assholes, we’re not violent people, but unless you start making this more fair, this is going to end up in a situation in which we will have to resort to violence, and there’s a lot more of us than there are of you”.
Or as Percy Bysshe put it more eloquently a few centuries ago in a political poem (thought to perhaps be the first modern statement of the principle of nonviolent resistance.)
Stand ye calm and resolute, Like a forest close and mute, With folded arms and looks which are Weapons of unvanquished war.
And if then the tyrants dare, Let them ride among you there; Slash, and stab, and maim and hew; What they like, that let them do.
With folded arms and steady eyes, And little fear, and less surprise, Look upon them as they slay, Till their rage has died away:
Then they will return with shame, To the place from which they came, And the blood thus shed will speak In hot blushes on their cheek:
Rise, like lions after slumber In unvanquishable number! Shake your chains to earth like dew Which in sleep had fallen on you: Ye are many—they are few!
In the past the commoners treated badly had to contend with rulers in castles with canon loaded with grape shot
I don’t think you have to look very far to see discussions of guillotines and the like - I’m not sure that the discourse is as restrained as you think.
Yeah you’re still doing it. Euphemism, that is.
Yes, you can find people straight up advocating “we should sharpen the guillotine”, but even then it isn’t “the rich don’t deserve to live” but more of a directly implied threat of dying just like what happened in the French Revolution, and that was quite literally class warfare.
So even saying “let’s sharpen the guillotines” (which I’m all for), it is a restricted form of threat. It’s not about the lack of implied threat, that’s my point. I think we all know that eating a person unalives them.
The point I’m making is that while the implied threat is death, the way the threats are made really do show how much more moral the working class is compared to the capitalist scum who genuinely don’t mind saying inhuman things and straight up advocating for inhumane working conditions and whatnot.
It’s not about “restrained discourse”. It’s the way the death threats are made. “Eat” reminds people that the reason to attack the rich is literally hunger, not anger. “Guillotine” reminds us of how effective the brutal revolution of France was for them.
Both situations that the rich ruling class can willfully avoid if they choose to share.
They just never fucking do.
So while there is a direct threat of death, saying “eat the rich” / “sharpen the guillotine” is still a humane response which gives the people under threat a chance to resolve the situation peacefully. It’s not like some genocidal rightwing rhetoric of “the only good [enterraciststereotype] is a dead [enterraciststereotype]”.
You see the difference there? (Not asking sarcastically, I’m trying to communicate something that I haven’t written much on so it’s still prolly coming out a bit incoherent at time.)
Dig a hole. Fill the bottom with a billionaire corpse. Plant a tree on top and finish filling the hole. Take a breath of fresh air.
Does it have to be a corpse?
At some point.
Easier to stop them trying to make a break for it.
Odds are you’re gonna have to shoot them anyways to stop an escape so save the energy you’d have to spend ordering them around if they’re still alive.
Diggy diggy hole…
Just don’t eat the brains. It wouldn’t be very filling anyway.
Composting doesn’t get rid of prions or heavy metals unfortunately.
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Unfortunately they do. Plans have been shown to take up prions associated with Chronic Wasting Disease and transmit them to mice.
whaaaaaaaaaaat
Well. The folk punks always knew that we all are just compost in training.
As long as the compost is made safely. Gotta be, like, heated, industrial-scale composting. If you just throw a congress critter into the backyard mulch it’s still gonna be pretty risky.
All good points, but Lemmy was very specific about what to do with the rich.
https://inv.tux.pizza/watch?v=Wh3t49NsWBA
/watch?v=Wh3t49NsWBA
Unconditional support for comrade broccoli! 🫡
Meh, I’ll take my chances. The heads are going on pikes anyway so that should mitigate the prion problem. As for the metals, well they can’t be worse than you’d get eating a lot of predatory fish (like tuna). Since there’s a lot of oppressed and a relatively much smaller number of rich, the load will be distributed widely enough to mitigate the metal problem anyway.
