• FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Most communist parties in Brasil are alligned with imperialism, in part or as a whole. But PCO is grassroots communism, no academic bullshit or consessions for the burguersie. They talk to the people, defend palestine in actions (not just Internet posting), defend the working class etc etc. Lenin would be overhelmed with proud

    • novibe@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      I definitely don’t mean the “communist” parties. But PCO is… kinda Trotskyist no? And kinda conservative, anti-LGBTQ movements and such.

      • FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        They are not kinda trotskyists, they are trotskyists. They are not conservadores, they are the most progressive party in the country. They are for right to abortion, legalization of drugs, same sex marriage, end of exploitation of woman, etc etc. What they are against (and thats where people get those ideas you pointed) is censorship, and in Brasil you have lots (and if you count the famous ones, all of them) of indentitarian movements infiltrated by CIA agenda points, asking to sendo people to jail amd censor them. A good example is the minister for human rights: Police gets into the slums and kill 30 people (guess their color) he says nothing, but some guy calls a fuebol player a monkey and he asks for the guy to be imprisioned. They defended gay people way before it was cooler, way before CIA took the movement over. Theres a particular case when a researcher found out that a very important person from the black movement (from the colonization time) was gay. People from the Black movement got pissed and asked for him to be censored and even beaten. PCO didnt agree with his thesis but they defended his right to say that and offered to shield him from the aggressions. The point is, their agenda is to bring forth communism, and it includes freedom of speech. When people ask them to betray this objective in order to support some identitarian movement thats asking for censorship, they say no. Does that make them anti lgbt?

        • Kras Mazov
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          4 months ago

          Yeah, get out with this shit. Stop trying to push PCO here.

          Lots of accusations here and your use of “identitarian movements” and “freedom of speech” with the example you used speaks volumes already. Also what’s with the “defending gay people way before it was cooler”, and "before it was infiltrated by CIA agenda points? This all just smells extremely reactionary.

          • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            4 months ago

            Freedom of Speech is actually an important freedom and a big blind spot of western leftists is mocking it because they associate it with Musk and Libertarian types in their local areas, but in fact there are many reactionary states and bourgeois dictatorships that harshly censor communists. You have never experienced that level of oppression so it all seems like a joke to you, but go live in Argentina or Egypt or Saudi Arabia for a couple years and maybe you’ll wise up

          • FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago
            1. Defend your point, dont try to censor me lol

            2. Im not inside your head, point out what you think

            3. Before it was cool = before usa capitalism decided it was profitable

            4. How so?

            • Kras Mazov
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              4 months ago

              Defend your point, dont try to censor me lol

              Literally no one is “censoring” you, get a grip. I’m telling you to stop pushing this bullshit, that’s all.

              Im not inside your head, point out what you think

              Already did on my last comment.

              Before it was cool = before usa capitalism decided it was profitable

              How so?

              You’re literally tossing everything as “identity politics” and comes claiming “free speech absolutism” and that other parties are aligned with imperialism and needs me to point out how that is reactionary? Really? Your condescending way of referring to LGBT people, Black and Indigenous people, Feminists and everyone else you might deem fit into the “identity movement” list, is not enough?

              All you’re doing here is tossing all the work and struggle of oppressed people into a nice box that you don’t like just to diminish it, all while not backing any single claim you made.

              And the free speech part, like come on, you literally admitted the party stance was to side with the homophobe because “muh freeze peach”, are you for real?

              • FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml
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                4 months ago

                If you think its bullshit, you are free to think so. Now if you ask me to stop talking about it, no

                If you think you made your point, i did not understand it.

                Movements based on identity are identity movements, im sorry to tell you that. Thats not criticism, thats caracterization. If you think its bad to be called identitary, then its on you. Marxism is about class and class strugle, wich is based on economic positions. They are different things. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they dont

                And you didnt read it correctly, or maybe i didnt made it clear enough. PCO disagreed with the researcher, who said Zumbi de Palmares was gay, but stood for his right to say so, even defending him when the black movement wanted him (the researcher) cersored

                • Kras Mazov
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                  4 months ago

                  Still no proof of any of the claims you made, no matter how bold they were.

                  If you think you made your point, i did not understand it.

                  My point is that you are are being reactionary, which I stated multiple times already.

                  Movements based on identity are identity movements, im sorry to tell you that. Thats not criticism, thats caracterization. If you think its bad to be called identitary, then its on you.

                  Here you come with this bullshit again. What “identity”? It’s always you PCO people that comes with this claim, again diminishing the struggle of the oppressed throughout the decades. You want to oppose the rampant liberalism present in LGBT, Black and Feminist movements? Sure, that’s great, but don’t fucking belittle people and the movements while you’re at it.

                  Marxism is about class and class strugle, wich is based on economic positions. They are different things. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they dont

                  And what class do the majority of LGBT, Black and Women are again? What do they fight for, and what discrimination do they face and from whom? Their fight is part of the fight of the proletariat and should be front and center to the liberation of the working class.

                  And you didnt read it correctly, or maybe i didnt made it clear enough. PCO disagreed with the researcher, who said Zumbi de Palmares was gay, but stood for his right to say so, even defending him when the black movement wanted him (the researcher) cersored

                  You didn’t make it clear enough on the original comment. It made it seem like PCO stood by the homophobic guy. But since I couldn’t find anything about any of this, besides the claim that Zumbi could be gay, what are the sources for your claims? You’re painting the whole black movement as bad with the way you are wording this.

                  • FreudianCafe@lemmy.ml
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                    4 months ago

                    Still no proof of any of the claims you made, no matter how bold they were.

                    Can you say exactly what you want proof for?

                    My point is that you are are being reactionary, which I stated multiple times already

                    You think its reactionary, I dont. Im not reactionary for disagreeing with what you think.

                    You want to oppose the rampant liberalism present in LGBT, Black and Feminist movements? Sure, that’s great

                    So you agree with pco

                    but don’t fucking belittle people and the movements while you’re at it.

                    ???

                    Their fight is part of the fight of the proletariat and should be front and center to the liberation of the working class.

                    I do agree that most of their fight goes hand in hand with proletarian causes, but no marxist in the world would claim thats the front and center of the cause. Marxists fight for the dictatorship of the proletariat, thats it

                    You’re painting the whole black movement as bad with the way you are wording this.

                    Im not painting anything. They were homophobic there. Does that make the “whole Black movement” bad? I dont think so. Most people are conservative, and even when someone is progressive in one area that doesnt make them immune to being reactionary in another. The world is full of contradictions.