The fixation on the aesthetics of Fallout has led to its stagnation.
It’s one of those things capitalism ruins. For Fallout to work as a brand, there needs to be brand recognition
It’s why they still use caps after it stopped making sense and why you see Power Armor, Vault Boys, and the Brotherhood of Steel everywhere. It’s not Fallout without those aesthetics, so everything associated with those aesthetics will stay past any logical reason.
It’s kinda sad really, if you think about the implications - since the aesthetics are tied up in Americana, it’s going to be a lot harder to tell stories from perspectives other than those affected by American companies. That’s cutting off worldbuilding for several countries they played a big part in the past. They won’t sell without brand recognition.
So the world becomes smaller and less real. Nobody will break away from eating Sugarbombs or drinking Nuka Cola. Hairstyles and fashion will either reference the 50s or just have vague Mad Max vibes. You’ll never spend the majority of your time outside of the US wasteland.
The world becomes less hopeful too. By virtue of the franchise’s premise, clear in the title, the world will only ever be ravaged by nuclear fallout. Any happy ending you get in any of the games become divorced from one another to maintain the status quo. That or a retcon or later event ruins whatever changes meaningfully in the setting. The world will never heal because Fallout needs a broken world.
It sucks because Fallout still has great potential for political commentary and satire, but it’s confined in its messaging because because it’s owned by and they don’t want to criticize shallow consumption if their profit relies on shallow consumption.
Started getting properly into Starfield and I had a thought pop into my head that I’d like to know if it’s true or not:
Bethesda is a creatively bankrupt company. They can only take existing interesting settings (Fallout, Elder Scrolls) and build lackluster games to take place in them.
The people currently at Bethesda have never done a creative thing in their lives, so they just did Skyrim in space but without any of the interesting backing of the TES world. You’ve got the UC (Empire, order and bureaucracy) and the Freestars (Stormcloaks, liberty and old-fashioned values). They basically just did dragon shouts again. And the combat basically just feels like Fallout but - again - with anything unique or interesting stripped off.
It is a game utterly devoid of charm or originality because Bethesda as a company cannot create those things, they can only borrow the creative works of others to slap their shitty engine on top of.
There a scene in Starfield where you go to a night club on Neon and its just techno music with people awkwardly dancing in funny hats. I couldn’t help being disappointed that THAT was what they thought a futuristic space night club would look like. Jesus. My high school prom was just some christmas lights hung in the gym and it was cooler than that
There a scene in Starfield where you go to a night club on Neon and its just techno music with people awkwardly dancing in funny hats. I couldn’t help being disappointed that THAT was what they thought a futuristic space night club would look like. Jesus. My high school prom was just some christmas lights hung in the gym and it was cooler than that
That’s one of my most common recurring criticisms of so-called future speculation, especially Reddit-style “futurology:” too many people can daydream about spaceships and superpowers and maybe immortality, but any actual social/cultural changes of actual significance are unfathomable or even scary.
It’s what put me off from the Cyberpunkerinos from CDPR: it was outright boomer-tier stale in its supposed futuristic world.
Star Citizen is laughably backward in what it claims is almost a millennium in the future: that fantastical far future is bleak 90s malls with hot dog stands and push-carts to deliver packages via private space trucks to grease the wheels of Roman-style space fascism with corporate characteristics. Oh, and the head grifter directly inserted himself into the fiction’s lore as the savior of humanity, style:
I remember the first time I got to Vivec city in Morrowind and how astounded I was. It seemed so alien and it was really cool to see a city not built by or for humans. Now 20 years later they had the opportunity to really outdo themselves. Make it weird, make it gross, make it fantastic, even if they didn’t entirely stick the landing it would have been cool to experience a sense of wonder at what maybe the future could look like.
They didn’t do any of that. They built the futureland section of a second rate amusement park
They didn’t do any of that. They built the futureland section of a second rate amusement park
It was a glorified Fallout settlement. I took one look at what was supposed to be the future capitol of space neoliberalism and never felt the temptation to play it again.
but any actual social/cultural changes of actual significance are unfathomable or even scary
This is definitely a giant problem in Starfield, but I don’t think it’s why the clubs are so lame. Cause the problem isn’t just that it isn’t a cool club for a magic space future, it isn’t even a cool club for now. If I walked into that club tonight I would be like “this place is lame and dead.”
For one, it’s the most incredibly sex-less club I’ve ever seen in my life. If you’re gonna have dancers on a stage in your space bar can you try to make it at least slightly sexy?
Mass Effect 1 had a better nightclub and it’s not even very good and that game came out like 15 years ago.
I’m not even sure if making the Starfield club superficially hornier would actually help that much if nothing else was changed about it, not at this point, considering how bleak and bland the setting is to the point of being its own meme.
but any actual social/cultural changes of actual significance are unfathomable or even scary.
It’s why I fucking love The Expanse. The Belters feel absolutely distinct, with a unique culture and language that would develop from being exploited, poor, and forced to work in space without any support. It’s one of the few sci-fi series to actually have a thought about what culture would look like in space and how even the (relatively, in scifi terms) short distance between Earth and Ceres would still contribute to massive social changes.
This is a rather common point, like I’ve seen the points on your comment basically almost everywhere actually but I’d just mention just because they are not creative it doesn’t mean they can’t be.
Look at hollywood now vs 20 or 30 years ago. The big studios converged into the mega franchises because it was profitable not because they can’t find or don’t have access to creative talent. Heck the same people that made those relatively better movies decades ago are still working today(though that is also another critique mfers never actualy retire).
People say Bethesda can’t make things more creative than cookie cutter FO and TES, its true from observation but we will never know if its actualy true in a vaccuum, if you gave those teams a lot more freedom and backing to actualy be creative.
Although as I write all of this, maybe Anthem is the best counter example lol tl;dr fucked by a lead dev/designer that simply couldn’t get the idea together for years
It feels like Bethesda is creatively bankrupt. But a lot of studios are like that these days. I’m pretty sure with Bethesda, idea pitches probably start with working from previous games’ formats and then going from there.
Doing everything they can to say Skyrim but in space without saying Skyrim.
Throw in development times, crunch, and changing ideas, the creativity will be wrung out way before the game hits the shelves.
i’ve spent many many hours in that game, but i dropped it like a rock at some point and never looked back. it’s just not got any charm to it whatsoever, there’s a few specks of interesting story threads and ideas out in the cosmos that kept me clinging on, but it never really feels alive, or like the people who worked on it had a genuine vision for their universe. it’s like a 6 or 7 out of ten, not because there’s peaks of 10/10 and troughs of 3/10, but because every single aspect is just sorta mediocre across the board, with little to no variation
Ouch, I feel like “creatively bankrupt” is a bit harsh but I can’t really think of how they aren’t. It seems obvious their best days are behind them.
Starfield could’ve been so much better if it didn’t do the “transcend humanity” which is just such a tired sci-fi trope at this point. Rehash the civil war plotline if they have to, just done right. Planet to planet, take it by means of diplomacy, intrigue, or just violence. It wouldn’t have been original, but at least it would’ve been more entertaining than going around, faffing about in 0g while trying to hit some floating lights for 15 times, and then the story ends.
They fixed a lot of what skyrim and fallout did wrong, there are some skill checks and the character’s background becomes at least a conversation item, but everything else is just so limp dicked. Ugh, I’m still mad about it even when I did not expect anything else than what we got.
“transcend humanity” which is just such a tired sci-fi trope at this point
“Transcend humanity” is a cliche that is most often put forward and consumed by people that aren’t really that interested in humanity to begin with and want to “escape” it in a lazy selfish way.
As a beginner game developer, I really can appreciate Starfield for it’s technical complexity, and even though I want to keep playing, the game doesn’t make me feel anything.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more Starfield feels like it could have been planned as an MMORPG and then pivoted to a single-player game halfway through development.
This is a problem common to many games studios. But with Bethesda it’s really damn obvious and tiring. Really is a shame that gamers let this go on without any consequences
And because Bethesda insists on just cycling through their IPs, the games come out so fucking far apart. And it’s only going to increase with Starfield being added. So fallout 5 will be “wow guys, remember that game fallout 4?” And Fallout 6 will be “wow guys, remember back when you played fallout 5 over a decade ago?” So it will always be locked in the nostalgia trap, and they’ll never feel the need to say “ok we are mixing up the formula for this bi-yearly release, by going to the wastelands of southern China” or something
The fixation on the aesthetics of Fallout has led to its stagnation.
It’s one of those things capitalism ruins. For Fallout to work as a brand, there needs to be brand recognition
It’s why they still use caps after it stopped making sense and why you see Power Armor, Vault Boys, and the Brotherhood of Steel everywhere. It’s not Fallout without those aesthetics, so everything associated with those aesthetics will stay past any logical reason.
It’s kinda sad really, if you think about the implications - since the aesthetics are tied up in Americana, it’s going to be a lot harder to tell stories from perspectives other than those affected by American companies. That’s cutting off worldbuilding for several countries they played a big part in the past. They won’t sell without brand recognition.
So the world becomes smaller and less real. Nobody will break away from eating Sugarbombs or drinking Nuka Cola. Hairstyles and fashion will either reference the 50s or just have vague Mad Max vibes. You’ll never spend the majority of your time outside of the US wasteland.
The world becomes less hopeful too. By virtue of the franchise’s premise, clear in the title, the world will only ever be ravaged by nuclear fallout. Any happy ending you get in any of the games become divorced from one another to maintain the status quo. That or a retcon or later event ruins whatever changes meaningfully in the setting. The world will never heal because Fallout needs a broken world.
It sucks because Fallout still has great potential for political commentary and satire, but it’s confined in its messaging because because it’s owned by
and they don’t want to criticize shallow consumption if their profit relies on shallow consumption.
Started getting properly into Starfield and I had a thought pop into my head that I’d like to know if it’s true or not:
Bethesda is a creatively bankrupt company. They can only take existing interesting settings (Fallout, Elder Scrolls) and build lackluster games to take place in them.
The people currently at Bethesda have never done a creative thing in their lives, so they just did Skyrim in space but without any of the interesting backing of the TES world. You’ve got the UC (Empire, order and bureaucracy) and the Freestars (Stormcloaks, liberty and old-fashioned values). They basically just did dragon shouts again. And the combat basically just feels like Fallout but - again - with anything unique or interesting stripped off.
It is a game utterly devoid of charm or originality because Bethesda as a company cannot create those things, they can only borrow the creative works of others to slap their shitty engine on top of.
There a scene in Starfield where you go to a night club on Neon and its just techno music with people awkwardly dancing in funny hats. I couldn’t help being disappointed that THAT was what they thought a futuristic space night club would look like. Jesus. My high school prom was just some christmas lights hung in the gym and it was cooler than that
That’s one of my most common recurring criticisms of so-called future speculation, especially Reddit-style “futurology:” too many people can daydream about spaceships and superpowers and maybe immortality, but any actual social/cultural changes of actual significance are unfathomable or even scary.
It’s what put me off from the Cyberpunkerinos from CDPR: it was outright boomer-tier stale in its supposed futuristic world.
Star Citizen is laughably backward in what it claims is almost a millennium in the future: that fantastical far future is bleak 90s malls with hot dog stands and push-carts to deliver packages via private space trucks to grease the wheels of Roman-style space fascism with corporate characteristics. Oh, and the head grifter directly inserted himself into the fiction’s lore as the savior of humanity,
style:
https://starcitizen.tools/Chris_Roberts_(lore)
I remember the first time I got to Vivec city in Morrowind and how astounded I was. It seemed so alien and it was really cool to see a city not built by or for humans. Now 20 years later they had the opportunity to really outdo themselves. Make it weird, make it gross, make it fantastic, even if they didn’t entirely stick the landing it would have been cool to experience a sense of wonder at what maybe the future could look like.
They didn’t do any of that. They built the futureland section of a second rate amusement park
It was a glorified Fallout settlement. I took one look at what was supposed to be the future capitol of space neoliberalism and never felt the temptation to play it again.
This is so on point. New Atlantis looks like store-brand Tomorrowland.
This is definitely a giant problem in Starfield, but I don’t think it’s why the clubs are so lame. Cause the problem isn’t just that it isn’t a cool club for a magic space future, it isn’t even a cool club for now. If I walked into that club tonight I would be like “this place is lame and dead.”
For one, it’s the most incredibly sex-less club I’ve ever seen in my life. If you’re gonna have dancers on a stage in your space bar can you try to make it at least slightly sexy?
Mass Effect 1 had a better nightclub and it’s not even very good and that game came out like 15 years ago.
I’m not even sure if making the Starfield club superficially hornier would actually help that much if nothing else was changed about it, not at this point, considering how bleak and bland the setting is to the point of being its own meme.
Exactly. This is supposed to be a club in the grittiest, most drug addled city in the known universe and they offer dancers in funny neon hats? Wtf
It’s why I fucking love The Expanse. The Belters feel absolutely distinct, with a unique culture and language that would develop from being exploited, poor, and forced to work in space without any support. It’s one of the few sci-fi series to actually have a thought about what culture would look like in space and how even the (relatively, in scifi terms) short distance between Earth and Ceres would still contribute to massive social changes.
neon was such a disappointment in general
This is a rather common point, like I’ve seen the points on your comment basically almost everywhere actually but I’d just mention just because they are not creative it doesn’t mean they can’t be.
Look at hollywood now vs 20 or 30 years ago. The big studios converged into the mega franchises because it was profitable not because they can’t find or don’t have access to creative talent. Heck the same people that made those relatively better movies decades ago are still working today(though that is also another critique mfers never actualy retire).
People say Bethesda can’t make things more creative than cookie cutter FO and TES, its true from observation but we will never know if its actualy true in a vaccuum, if you gave those teams a lot more freedom and backing to actualy be creative.
Although as I write all of this, maybe Anthem is the best counter example lol tl;dr fucked by a lead dev/designer that simply couldn’t get the idea together for years
It feels like Bethesda is creatively bankrupt. But a lot of studios are like that these days. I’m pretty sure with Bethesda, idea pitches probably start with working from previous games’ formats and then going from there.
Doing everything they can to say Skyrim but in space without saying Skyrim.
Throw in development times, crunch, and changing ideas, the creativity will be wrung out way before the game hits the shelves.
i’ve spent many many hours in that game, but i dropped it like a rock at some point and never looked back. it’s just not got any charm to it whatsoever, there’s a few specks of interesting story threads and ideas out in the cosmos that kept me clinging on, but it never really feels alive, or like the people who worked on it had a genuine vision for their universe. it’s like a 6 or 7 out of ten, not because there’s peaks of 10/10 and troughs of 3/10, but because every single aspect is just sorta mediocre across the board, with little to no variation
Ouch, I feel like “creatively bankrupt” is a bit harsh but I can’t really think of how they aren’t. It seems obvious their best days are behind them.
Starfield could’ve been so much better if it didn’t do the “transcend humanity” which is just such a tired sci-fi trope at this point. Rehash the civil war plotline if they have to, just done right. Planet to planet, take it by means of diplomacy, intrigue, or just violence. It wouldn’t have been original, but at least it would’ve been more entertaining than going around, faffing about in 0g while trying to hit some floating lights for 15 times, and then the story ends.
They fixed a lot of what skyrim and fallout did wrong, there are some skill checks and the character’s background becomes at least a conversation item, but everything else is just so limp dicked. Ugh, I’m still mad about it even when I did not expect anything else than what we got.
“Transcend humanity” is a cliche that is most often put forward and consumed by people that aren’t really that interested in humanity to begin with and want to “escape” it in a lazy selfish way.
Oh absolutely! I totally agree!
As a beginner game developer, I really can appreciate Starfield for it’s technical complexity, and even though I want to keep playing, the game doesn’t make me feel anything.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more Starfield feels like it could have been planned as an MMORPG and then pivoted to a single-player game halfway through development.
This is a problem common to many games studios. But with Bethesda it’s really damn obvious and tiring. Really is a shame that gamers let this go on without any consequences
And because Bethesda insists on just cycling through their IPs, the games come out so fucking far apart. And it’s only going to increase with Starfield being added. So fallout 5 will be “wow guys, remember that game fallout 4?” And Fallout 6 will be “wow guys, remember back when you played fallout 5 over a decade ago?” So it will always be locked in the nostalgia trap, and they’ll never feel the need to say “ok we are mixing up the formula for this bi-yearly release, by going to the wastelands of southern China” or something
ironically that stagnation due to fixation on americana is very fallout