u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
I’m currently reading Patriots, Traitors & Empires and I’m really enjoying it so far. I learned absolutely nothing about Kim Il Sung and Korea’s history in school, so I have to learn about it all on my own time now in college (I don’t take any history classes).
From what I’ve read thus far, it’s very obvious that Kim Il Sung and all his merits led him to the position that he was in and that he earned his place as the founder and leader of the DPRK. My only concern, and I guess confusion, is why his son took over following his death. I don’t want to flat-out call the DPRK a monarchy because I’m not that educated on how they operate, but I’m sure you can all understand how someone in the West would see it as a monarchy through Western media and how the country is portrayed.
I guess my question is that is there any reason Marxist-Leninists should support the DPRK’s leadership from Kim Jong Il to now Kim Jong Un? Aside from being descendants of the DPRK’s founder, do they really have any qualifications? Kim Il Sung was a guerrilla leader and dedicated his life to liberating Korea, so why did the passing of command not work like a meritocracy wherein the most qualified person would take Kim Il Sung’s place once he died?
Is this “monarchy”, as it is viewed by most Westerners, widely popular in the DPRK? By that I mean do the DPRK’s proletariat accept this chain of leadership that they will be guided by the descendants of Kim Il Sung? I feel like if the answer is “yes” in any way, it would be hard to buy into that idea because Western media portrays their population as brainwashed and subjugated under a feudal monarchy. I, however, am more than willing to accept that it’s simply a different culture and their conditions are vastly different than other countries, especially the West.
I’m sure someone is going to tell me to watch Hakim’s video on why the DPRK is so weird but I’ve already seen it and it didn’t answer my question or clear up my confusion. It seems like the DPRK is the most lied about country of nearly all-time, and the difference in culture and structure between my country (America) and theirs is so vast that I want to learn more.
u/BismarckVonGames - originally from r/GenZhou
General Kim Jong il is arguably one of the greatest leader to ever exist. Kim il’s son got into politics early on and learned a lot from his father during the Korean war. His theory was the importance of having a great to led the party to prevent revisionism from taking place. It was no brainer why the party would of selected him to led them. He also have the influence of being the son of a national who liberated Korea. You should the YouTube channel " Juche gang " to learn about Korea.u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
So there was at least some council or parliament that elected Kim Jong Il to lead after his father died? It wasn’t just “oh shit I’m old and dying, make sure my son takes over after me I don’t want anyone else leading this country”u/King-Sassafrass - originally from r/GenZhou
Well yeah. There’s a whole Workers Party and a congres that runs the country. While seeming to be this untouchable authority, the Kim family is checked. There was even issues within the family.But given the circumstances, you need a statesman. You need a figure that people can look up to, be guided by, and look to strive for. Who greater than Kim Il Sung, then when he died, who greater than his son, who learned all the lessons from him. During the 90’s it was an incredibly tough time. No one is really rallying behind the idea of the under secretary of production, or some other beurocratic title, they want reminders of the great leader they once had, and they want to feel safe. But this posed issues since the family had small factions of counter revolutionary corruption inside of it.
Given the hardships seen in the 90’s, the party put a lot of effort into Kim Jong Un, and his education. We all hear the stories of how he was a well taught student who went to Switzerland and grew up in the west. The WPK was smart in the regard that “right now we’re in a hard time, but Kim Jong Il is older in age”, by pivoting to their new statesman as, once again, the embodiment of the great leader they once had (Kim Il Sung, and now Kim Jong Il) here is a new figurehead to look up to. Someone wise, smart and young in his age.
But the idea was smart to focus on Kim Jong Un, since if your going to put a lot of money into trying to get someone who’s going to help out the country, you aren’t just going to put it into some average Joe. But by putting it into the leaders grandson/son, you know he isn’t going to see his country in peril, and just flee to the west to live off his years, he’ll have to come back. Come back and save Korea from hard times. And that is the banner that gets rallied behind.
Once Kim Jong Un stepped in, there was an issue with corruption amoung his family, and it demonstrated that he was serious. Seriously for the people, and not for self gain.
Here’s the Wikipedia (that isn’t shitty) showing the Premiers of the DPRK over time
u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
Does the corruption you refer to have anything to do with Kim Jong Un ordering the execution of his uncle (or some other relative)? I suddenly remember hearing much about that, but it was spun at the time as “OMG the new leader of North Korea is killing his family members! He’s taking full control of the country and not letting anyone stand in his way!”u/King-Sassafrass - originally from r/GenZhou
Yes. And it was dramatic of course, with the west frothing at the mouth for it, but that did happen. As for the next 10 years of “his aunt disappeared! No wait, here she is. His sister dissapeared! No wait, she exists too” it just was mocked over and over again.u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
Do you have any source on the family corruption, what happened and why he had his uncle or other relatives killed? I don’t wan to make you type it all out to explain to me, but I really appreciate all the information.u/King-Sassafrass - originally from r/GenZhou
I’m sorry i couldn’t do it. I’m trying to scour links and they’re either broken or from the west. Supposedly the KCNA announced it, but the way back machine has no captures for it. ‘Apparently’ his death was due to trying to neo-liberalize the countries economy, and improper use of his power (vague, sadly nothing i could find). I believe the brother however, had died due to foreign powers. They say Kim Jong-Un killed him when he went to Malaysia, but i don’t fully believe this story, as the CIA would try anything in its power to scare the DPRK into trying to open up, negotiate and leave their country to go to talks and meetings. But again, there is little that i could be found and it is speculatoryu/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
That’s a bummer, but I really appreciate the effort and help!
u/newcomradthrowaway - originally from r/GenZhou
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/1zzeri/how_do_elections_work_in_the_dprk/cfyl1df/https://writetorebel.com/2017/03/28/socialism-and-democracy-in-the-dprk/
u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
I’ve seen that comment before on DPRK elections, but my question was more about the positions that followed Kim Il Sung. I’ve heard about how once he died, the position was dissolved so he’s the “Eternal Leader” and the same happened with his son died, so he was “eternal” as well. Another commenter made it seem like a council of some sort elected Kim Jong Il to lead after his father died, is that true? Did the same happen for Kim Jong Un? I get the general idea of how elections work in the DPRK but from my understanding the proletariat have no say in the highest position which Kim Jong Un currently holds, right?u/newcomradthrowaway - originally from r/GenZhou
Yeah I dunno enough. But the usual comments that people in AES support their leaders, and leadership is supported by millions of people. AES presidents don’t exist in a vacuum with absolute power. So I’d err on the side of yes, the Kims have support from people and it’s not nepotism.u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
I’ll try to find more sources, and maybe the end of this book will even touch on how Jong Il and Jong Un came to power (haven’t finished it yet) but it is rather difficult to explain that 3 generations of leaders isn’t a monarchy when it kinda looks like it, but I’m going into the subject with as open-minded as possibleu/newcomradthrowaway - originally from r/GenZhou
I think it’s easy to spin as monarchy or nepotism at the surface level.Look at Stalin, he wanted to step down but nobody wanted him to and he kept getting voted in so he kept being the general secretary. The West spun that as him being an authoritarian leader.
I know the USSR isn’t the DPRK, but it’s an example of how easy it is to twist narratives
u/jawnbeatwif - originally from r/GenZhou
Kim Jong Un is extremely popular in DPRK and was as soon as he took office thanks to the association with his father. However, it isn’t nepotism in the sense that he was given his power by name alone, but due to his statecraft and leadership/symbolic significance to the population rather than simply to the benefit of the family or other private individualsKim Jong Un has helped guide a lot of progress in Korea and build off the revolution from his fathers leadership. Imo he has improved on many restrictive policies made during war which are no longer necessary.
Kim Il Sung was a great leader who made impossible decisions to navigate complex geopolitics and save his people, while Kim Jong Un is more egalitarian and has continued on the path his father began, rebuilding Korea internally and as a state/power
u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
I’ve heard from people who claim to be more educated on the DPRK that Kim Jong Un doesn’t really hold an office of power and that he’s more or less a symbol of the revolution, of the Juche philosophy and the face of the country. Is this an accurate description of his title? Or is he actually in the highest position of authority? I always hear contradictory takes on it, either he’s just a symbol for the population and doesn’t really have all that much authority on his own without support from councils and such, or he’s actually the one man in charge who has final say over everything and everything he says goesu/jawnbeatwif - originally from r/GenZhou
Western media portrays him as a dictator, but he is not a despot. There are many elected offices in DPRK and he is only one of many. His position def has many authorities in domestic policy (I believe he has right to authorize military under some circumstances as well), but not total individual control of every facet of Korean society, which would be not only catastrophic to Korea’s function but practically impossible.It’s similar to how Xi Jinping is presented: a dictator who decides everything in the country… ignoring the federalist makeup of Chinese provinces and bureaucratic distribution of power on every level of Chinese society.
There is a grain of truth tho, as the line between soft and hard power can blur. Authority is authority, and all governments and acting officials breach this line of hierarchical relations in some way. The distinction is who controls the exercise of this authority, and therefore, who benefits from its use?
Having said all that, I don’t know a ton of specifics about the inner workings of DPRK on the federal level, but hopefully this offers some useful perspective
u/Leviation_ - originally from r/GenZhou
No. Its a monarchy claiming to be a workers republic. It has completely betrayed the ideas of communism and i dont understand why communists still support itAs one website put it best
“If you want to know how its like to live in an ancient East Asian kingdom, visit North Korea”
u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
Thank you, r/GenUsa user, for providing such a concise and simple answer. I appreciate the “one website” you cited without name. Thanks very much, very informative!u/Leviation_ - originally from r/GenZhou
Its been a long time since ive been on that website. Think it was a quora post ackshuallyAlso you dont talk smack about GenUSA. Unlike you commies you have the freedom to come in and make a fool out of yourself.
u/kissyoursister - originally from r/GenZhou
Very credible, I’ll look into it.