u/The-MT-Sant - originally from r/GenZhou
Taking a modern Chinese History class right now and a lot of it can be your typical weird, Western, propagandistic gobbley gook that amounts to “communism bad China bad”. However, we’re currently on the section regarding the Cultural Revolution and it seems like something that even the modern Communist Party acknowledges as a mistake, with the rehabilitation of many figures under Deng Xiapoing in the 80s. It also (at least form how it is being taught) seems like something that was simply objectively bad and used as a crackdown on individual rights. We are also required to read “Son of A Revolution” by Liang Heng and Judith Shapiro. Is this a reliable book? Also Do communists typically just look at this era as a mistake made by Mao? Were there any salvageable aspects of this time period? Or should it be looked at as nothing more than a stain on the Party’s record and something that needs to be learned from? Furthermore, do you think that the Cultural Revolution was motivated by genuine fear of external pressure attempting to destabilize China or more so the party and Mao’s paranoia that a youynger generation wouldn’t hold the same fervor for revolution that the generation that actively participated in it did? Lots of questions I know (haha) but any information about Chinese historians, communists, or the CCP views this era would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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    u/FreeRangePork - originally from r/GenZhou
    The cultural revolution was definitely complicated, and I agree with the CPC’s opinion that it was a mistake, and lots of people were targeted who didn’t deserve it, and it was chaotic and very poorly carried out. However it was not all negative, Dongping Han, who is a professor in the US who grew up in China during that period wrote a book called the Unknown Cultural revolution, and he sees many positive aspects of the period, like an increase in rural education and the chance for people to challenge corrupt party officials, among other things. I’d highly recommend the book if you’re looking for another view on the era.

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      u/The-MT-Sant - originally from r/GenZhou
      Thank you for the recommendation! I’d consider myself a communist and I’d like to think I have a pretty solid grasp on socialism in Southern Africa in particular (thanks to an awesome professor I had) but I really have very little grasp on contemporary Chinese history so I decided to take this class. The professor is great and offers a lot of readings by historians with different paradigms but it has been difficult differentiating between the very obvious reactionary historians and the genuine blunders of Mao and the party during the early period of the PRC. A lot of the time class discussion rolls around to the typical “brainwashing and destruction of individuality and the horrors of communism” so I appreciate all of the different perspectives this sub has been giving

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        u/Eroy78 - originally from r/GenZhou
        Maoists believe cultural revolution is a necessary step in a successful socialist revolution, so there are communists who consider it a positive. I recently read ‘Continuity and Rupture’ by J Paul. It is worth checking out to better understand Marxism-Leninism-Maoism.

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          u/ROMEROoscar - originally from r/GenZhou
          Gonzalism, you mean

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            u/Eroy78 - originally from r/GenZhou
            I’m still learning about MLM, but it is my understanding that old school Maoists would fall more in the category of ML-MZT, whereas current Maoists fall into the MLM that was spearheaded by Gonzalo and others. This MLM seems to have been formally synthesized between 1986 and 1993. Something like that. And I see a lot of ideas I like coming from MLM, I feel that their analysis of AES countries is too dogmatic, however.

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              u/ROMEROoscar - originally from r/GenZhou
              Mao Zedong Thought is the Communist Party of China’s interpretation of Mao’s works.

              Marxism Leninism with Mao Zedong Though and Deng Xiaoping Theory would be China’s current ideology. It is never called Maoism.

              “Maoism”, or Marxism-Leninism-“Maoism”, is a form of left-communist adventurism based off the works of Gonzalo and Sison. The only thing “Maoism” has ever achieved is slaughtering villagers, working with the CIA, and engaging in 60 year long civil wars.

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                u/Eroy78 - originally from r/GenZhou
                I was under the impression that China’s current ideology is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. Is SWCC essentially a blend of MZT and DXT? I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, I just recently read a book about the philosophical terrain of MLM. You may not like it, but it is having an influence in the third world and I don’t think it is something to chastise. Then again, you are probably much more familiar with it than I am. The book did make an interesting case claiming ML revolutionary tactics to be incomplete in today’s world, and that MLM address the contradictions within ML.

                To be sure I am not outright advocating MLM, I am just a communist who likes to read books.

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                  u/ROMEROoscar - originally from r/GenZhou
                  The opening paragraph of the Wiki article is surprisingly accurate:

                  The theoretical system of socialism with Chinese characteristics (Chinese: 中国特色社会主义; pinyin: Zhōngguó tèsè shèhuìzhǔyì)[1] is a set of political theories and policies of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that are seen by their proponents as representing Marxism–Leninism adapted to Chinese circumstances and specific time periods, consisting of Deng Xiaoping Theory, Three Represents (Jiang Zemin), Scientific Outlook on Development (Hu Jintao), and Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era.

                  So-called Maoists take the position that there are Marxist tactics that can be applied universally. Not only can they, Maoists argue, they must. They argue Protracted People’s War and Cultural Revolution are necessary to establish socialism. The only true desire of the ‘Maoist’ movement is violence and war.

                  Modern socialism in Bolivia and Venezuela is taking a different path than the Maoists forsaw, and therefore to Maoists these are not socialist countries. It’s an ideology of checklists.

                  I think you’re overstating the global influence of so-called Maoism.

                  Don’t get caught up in obscure ideologies born from academia and book worship.

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                u/Staerebu - originally from r/GenZhou
                Well current is XJT

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            u/Eroy78 - originally from r/GenZhou
            Thanks. Could you elaborate on what you said about Zizek? I still have no idea what to think of him.

            Edit: your first link isn’t working for me 🙁

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                  u/Eroy78 - originally from r/GenZhou
                  This is a lot to go over. Thanks dude, I appreciate it.

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    u/FeiGweilo - originally from r/GenZhou
    From a Communist and pro-China perspective, Mao was good because he fought the revolution and established the DotP in mainland China, however China had not yet industrialised by the time the CPC came to power. As I’m sure you’ve already read, Mao initially tried to follow the Soviets in industrialising China which produced some good results before the Sino-Soviet split. However, without the Soviets and no bourgeois capitalists of their own, it was difficult for China to continue its industrialisation alone whilst it was still crawling out of the husk of feudalism. This is why Deng introduced his reforms, because he understood dialectical and historical materialism well enough to know that one cannot bypass that phase of bourgeois capitalist industrialisation on the road to Communism. One of the biggest mistakes westerners make in their analysis of Deng is that they presume he was a capitalist at heart who gave up on the pursuit of Communism in China, merely keeping Communist aesthetic around as a cynical way to retain legitimacy but this is absolutely not true.

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      u/The-MT-Sant - originally from r/GenZhou
      Interesting! I appreciate all of the nuance from this thread. I consider myself a pretty open minded and nuanced thinker and I appreciate the class I’m in (for all of the reactionary talking points) because it does force me to take a more nuanced look at history and figures like Mao, both the good and bad but especially with things like this and the Great Leap Forward it can be difficult to navigate.

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      u/Euph0riccall - originally from r/GenZhou
      To add to this. if you take the time to read any books by Deng, you’ll quickly notice he was very Marxist and has always been. Liberal lies are so easy to debunk yet everyone continues to listen to them

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    u/cbaltmackie - originally from r/GenZhou
    The official position of the Communist Party of China regarding the Cultural Revolution:

    Regrettably, the correct line adopted at the Party’s Eighth National Congress was not fully upheld. Mistakes were made such as the Great Leap Forward and the people’s commune movement, and the scope of the struggle against Rightists was also made far too broad. Confronted with a grave and complex external environment at the time, the Party was extremely concerned about consolidating China’s socialist state power, and made a wide range of efforts in this regard. However, Comrade Mao Zedong’s theoretical and practical errors concerning class struggle in a socialist society became increasingly serious, and the Central Committee failed to rectify these mistakes in good time. Under a completely erroneous appraisal of the prevailing class relations and the political situation in the Party and the country, Comrade Mao Zedong launched and led the Cultural Revolution. The counter-revolutionary cliques of Lin Biao and Jiang Qing took advantage of Comrade Mao Zedong’s mistakes, and committed many crimes that brought disaster to the country and the people, resulting in ten years of domestic turmoil which caused the Party, the country, and the people to suffer the most serious losses and setbacks since the founding of the People’s Republic. This was an extremely bitter lesson. Acting on the will of the Party and the people, the Political Bureau of the Central Committee resolutely smashed the Gang of Four in October 1976, putting an end to the catastrophic Cultural Revolution.

    https://english.www.gov.cn/policies/latestreleases/202111/16/content_WS6193a935c6d0df57f98e50b0.html

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      u/AngelMCastillo - originally from r/GenZhou
      Imagine any US government body actually using the word “mistakes” to refer to the actions of its own historical figures, and being frank and honest about its own history in any way like this.

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    u/spliff_placebo - originally from r/GenZhou
    Mobo, Gao. The Battle for China’s Past: Mao and the Cultural Revolution. Pluto Press, 2008.

    Zhong, Xueping. Zheng, Wang. Di Bai. Some of Us: Chinese Women Growing Up in the Mao Era. Rutgers University Press, 2001.

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      u/The-MT-Sant - originally from r/GenZhou
      Interesting explanation! I also love the Three Body Problem it was an amazing book. Would you also recommend Deng Xiaoping and the transformation of China by Frank Vogel? We’ll cover chinas reform period in class soon but I’d like to get myself more well versed in Dengism myself.

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        u/traficantedemel - originally from r/GenZhou
        Sorry, I have no idea, I didn’t wrote the original answer :)

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        u/Worth_Investigator10 - originally from r/GenZhou
        Apologies that I cannot add some inputs on your question but I just want to mention that in the link shared above one Reddit user “ddmakodd” provided a lengthy and informative piece of text that might be worth reading (if you scroll down the last bit). Without recognizing the factions within the red guards, who did what, and what was done by whom, one may reach a partial conclusion in the end. Also, it is worth mentioning that the Marxist Club of Peking University (suspended already due to their support of workers and organizing labor unions) wrote an excellent book on CR. If you can read Chinese, you can Google it. I doubt there is English version around now.