Apple on Thursday asked the U.S. Supreme Court to strike down an order requiring changes to its App Store rules stemming from an antitrust case brought by "Fortnite" owner Epic Games.
I agree with an asterisk that it would be a worse experience for most users.
But my contention is that the benefit is greater even if it is less convenient, and that alternate app stores on Android have shown that the majority of people don’t use them or know they even exist. So for most people, there won’t be too much change. I’m sure some larger apps will try to force their own app stores and payment methods, but I don’t see that succeeding because again, it hasn’t on mobile. So I think there will be churn in the first few weeks or months, but then it would settle down.
At the end of the day, this is a computer owned by a user. They should be able to install what they want without having it approved by Apple and sold only through their store.
It’s not merely about convenience. It literally opens the door to every developer having their own method to download apps. It lowers the security of these devices, it’s worse for privacy, and it’s objectively a poorer experience for end users.
But even still, I again point to Android. You know how you avoid any security or convenience issues? You just don’t use the third party app store. And I think the same will play out if iOS does start allowing third party app stores.
I’m not sure if you’re too young or if you were blissfully ignorant but you seem entirely unaware of how easily people are led to add those kinds of things when there’s money involved. Does no one remember IE toolbars?
I’m in my late 30’s, I definitely remember those toolbars and other crapware that was common back then.
But now is not then. And smartphones aren’t the old Windows 2000 and XP machines of back then. I keep repeating it, but we already have a modern example of how this will go. It’s modern Android. And for the vast majority of people (in the West at least) they don’t install apps that are outside of the default apps or the built in Play Store. And I think the same will be true if iOS allows third party App Stores.
Sure, app developers will try. Apple devices are a huge honey pot that scammers and crappy devs would love to exploit. But after that initial gold rush, users that don’t have the knowledge to discern what is safe and what isn’t will be deterred by the difficulty of installing third party stores and inputting their payment methods. Scams will get press and Apple will warn against using them. And then the vast majority will just use their iPhones as is, with some users going third party for piracy and porn and then savvy users going to them for utilities and functions that Apple just doesn’t allow in the App Store.
I think it will be fine and the history of modern smartphones seems to support that theory.
Android is not an example of this. People don’t spend money on Android, unfortunately, in the store or otherwise, especially not when compared to Apple customers. Devs aren’t gonna do it on Android but they have incentive to do it if it’s forced in the Apple ecosystem. Apple’s users won’t have a choice if it’s legally mandated to allow other stores because these companies will have what amounts to a captive audience.
Android users spending less money doesn’t mean no money. There is money to be had, it is just less than iPhone users. And devs did try their own App Store and continue to. Epic for example has their own for Fortnite.
But what happened is that no one wanted to jump through the hoops of enabling third party app installs so most had to bend the knee and come back to the Play Store. If Apple is required to allow the same, I see the exact same thing happening. The majority of users won’t want to jump through hoops and won’t do it. Some devs will try to force it, but the loss of income will make them come back.
It’s objectively a better experience for me on Android, since it provides an easy source to find foss apps without ads or mtx. Saying opening up is bad would be like saying stuff like libreoffice, handbreak, and blender are bad because they can be retrieved outside official stores on desktop OS.
I’m glad that I’m able to retrieve programs that aren’t on the Apple store on MacOS like BetterDisplay and Rectangle to improve my MacOS experience over being locked to only the Apple store offerings. Why would I see the same freedom as bad on a phone when I don’t expect or want babysitting.
You can’t just apply your anecdotal experience to every user of these devices. And everyone responding is just talking about side loading which is not at all what the issue is. It’s fine for you to be able to install apps from other places but that’s not what’s at stake here. Epic wants to have its own store just like what happened to Steam and that doesn’t compare to what you’re suggesting.
I don’t see a problem with epic having their own store on PC. Steam is also an “unwanted unofficial store” on Windows and Mac. I’m glad that third party stores are able to thrive on Windows, since it is what allowed for stores like Steam or GOG to even exist due to Microsoft not strictly controlling who has the ability to distribute software on their OS.
Are you really trying to use Epic showing up to compete with Steam as though it is a negative when Steam is a store that is thriving on Windows OS that they don’t even have control over? Even their Steamos doesn’t prevent people from installing competing launchers. Steam is the complete opposite of who you should be using if you are trying to argue against the existence of Apple App store alternatives on iPhone.
You clearly have never used a Steam game/app that has required the install of a separate launcher in order to play within Steam. It’s a hot mess that breaks games constantly. On top of that, you seem to be ignoring that Epic’s lawsuit is about storefronts. Paying and downloading apps that require a separate payment system and separate update system is, in every way, a negative compared to Apple’s App Store.
I agree with an asterisk that it would be a worse experience for most users.
But my contention is that the benefit is greater even if it is less convenient, and that alternate app stores on Android have shown that the majority of people don’t use them or know they even exist. So for most people, there won’t be too much change. I’m sure some larger apps will try to force their own app stores and payment methods, but I don’t see that succeeding because again, it hasn’t on mobile. So I think there will be churn in the first few weeks or months, but then it would settle down.
At the end of the day, this is a computer owned by a user. They should be able to install what they want without having it approved by Apple and sold only through their store.
It’s not merely about convenience. It literally opens the door to every developer having their own method to download apps. It lowers the security of these devices, it’s worse for privacy, and it’s objectively a poorer experience for end users.
That’s the risk of freedom.
But even still, I again point to Android. You know how you avoid any security or convenience issues? You just don’t use the third party app store. And I think the same will play out if iOS does start allowing third party app stores.
I’m not sure if you’re too young or if you were blissfully ignorant but you seem entirely unaware of how easily people are led to add those kinds of things when there’s money involved. Does no one remember IE toolbars?
I’m in my late 30’s, I definitely remember those toolbars and other crapware that was common back then.
But now is not then. And smartphones aren’t the old Windows 2000 and XP machines of back then. I keep repeating it, but we already have a modern example of how this will go. It’s modern Android. And for the vast majority of people (in the West at least) they don’t install apps that are outside of the default apps or the built in Play Store. And I think the same will be true if iOS allows third party App Stores.
Sure, app developers will try. Apple devices are a huge honey pot that scammers and crappy devs would love to exploit. But after that initial gold rush, users that don’t have the knowledge to discern what is safe and what isn’t will be deterred by the difficulty of installing third party stores and inputting their payment methods. Scams will get press and Apple will warn against using them. And then the vast majority will just use their iPhones as is, with some users going third party for piracy and porn and then savvy users going to them for utilities and functions that Apple just doesn’t allow in the App Store.
I think it will be fine and the history of modern smartphones seems to support that theory.
Android is not an example of this. People don’t spend money on Android, unfortunately, in the store or otherwise, especially not when compared to Apple customers. Devs aren’t gonna do it on Android but they have incentive to do it if it’s forced in the Apple ecosystem. Apple’s users won’t have a choice if it’s legally mandated to allow other stores because these companies will have what amounts to a captive audience.
Android users spending less money doesn’t mean no money. There is money to be had, it is just less than iPhone users. And devs did try their own App Store and continue to. Epic for example has their own for Fortnite.
But what happened is that no one wanted to jump through the hoops of enabling third party app installs so most had to bend the knee and come back to the Play Store. If Apple is required to allow the same, I see the exact same thing happening. The majority of users won’t want to jump through hoops and won’t do it. Some devs will try to force it, but the loss of income will make them come back.
It’s objectively a better experience for me on Android, since it provides an easy source to find foss apps without ads or mtx. Saying opening up is bad would be like saying stuff like libreoffice, handbreak, and blender are bad because they can be retrieved outside official stores on desktop OS.
I’m glad that I’m able to retrieve programs that aren’t on the Apple store on MacOS like BetterDisplay and Rectangle to improve my MacOS experience over being locked to only the Apple store offerings. Why would I see the same freedom as bad on a phone when I don’t expect or want babysitting.
You can’t just apply your anecdotal experience to every user of these devices. And everyone responding is just talking about side loading which is not at all what the issue is. It’s fine for you to be able to install apps from other places but that’s not what’s at stake here. Epic wants to have its own store just like what happened to Steam and that doesn’t compare to what you’re suggesting.
I don’t see a problem with epic having their own store on PC. Steam is also an “unwanted unofficial store” on Windows and Mac. I’m glad that third party stores are able to thrive on Windows, since it is what allowed for stores like Steam or GOG to even exist due to Microsoft not strictly controlling who has the ability to distribute software on their OS.
Are you really trying to use Epic showing up to compete with Steam as though it is a negative when Steam is a store that is thriving on Windows OS that they don’t even have control over? Even their Steamos doesn’t prevent people from installing competing launchers. Steam is the complete opposite of who you should be using if you are trying to argue against the existence of Apple App store alternatives on iPhone.
You clearly have never used a Steam game/app that has required the install of a separate launcher in order to play within Steam. It’s a hot mess that breaks games constantly. On top of that, you seem to be ignoring that Epic’s lawsuit is about storefronts. Paying and downloading apps that require a separate payment system and separate update system is, in every way, a negative compared to Apple’s App Store.