I know that GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone. And that it has a lot of control over permissions and has some privacy features. But it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you; much less data, but still some. Now OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG which in addition to giving you the APIs, it uses less battery and has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data. CalyxOS and Lineage don’t have the crazy hardening modifications that GrapheneOS has, but Android is already crazy secure compared to something like Windows or Linux without a properly configured SELinux or AppArmor. Why have Graphene over Calyx?
Yeah but those are the issues that I have. The idea is to have a private phone where you don’t have to worry about Google harvesting your data and keeping it forever. But when you have an OS that has all these features and then use the Google services that take all that data, what is the point?
According to the last paragraph here, the spoofing at least in Calyx is limited to only microG. It’s less secure than a sandboxed thing, but I don’t think it’s gonna be that bad.
The point, is the part you’re clearly missing. Google can’t “harvest” anything from Graphene, its a regular non priviled app, that has no clue where you are. Aside from it not being installed by default, if you choose to install the sandboxxed play services, aside from being sandboxxed, the play services (or) Google apps can only have data you CHOSE to give them.
Thats a night and day difference between the normal situation. Also, microG is trash, have tiu used it long term? When tons of apps either dont work, crash for no reason, and paid apps are out. More and more apps are going to Googles license verification and then microG users are really screwed. Google is already screwing with YouTube clients, you think they couldn’t end microG tomorrow if they wanted to?
It’s true that you can choose not to give Google the location data or any other thing for that matter, but wouldn’t that hinder the functionality of the apps that need it? I believe there is no choice here, unless I’m missing something.
If you want to use something like Pokemon Go or whatever, your data is going to go to Google. Or if you use apps that use the Google notification servers, wouldn’t Google be able to use that data (I don’t know if they’re able to actually read the notifications, I’m just assuming).
I’m not shilling for OEM ROMs or attacking anything, but I wanna feel actually justified in the hassle and potential downgrade of the digital experience when I move to another ROM.
No, thats the entire point of how its implemented, it uses what they call “shims” so that it can still allow everything to work without privileged access. I can’t speak for Pokemon Go, as thats a very well know terrible app from a privacy standpoint and in doubt many Graphene users would ever consider running it, but I’ve yet to have an app that’d normally complain about a modified environment do so. My financial and banking apps all work, subscriptions work, etc. Worst I had to do with my Capital One app was disable the memory allocation tweak for it, which is a 2 sec permission change.
Sure the security is good and all but what about the privacy aspect? That’s what I worry about. Like I said, I believe Android is secure enough as is, but the dependence on all the Google services is what makes it less private. Using Graphene sure does increase security, but it cannot do much in terms of being private.
It can reduce the amount of data that goes to Google. But if you use non-privacy-respecting apps, then you’re SOL. My question is that, given all of the privacy issues that Graphene doesn’t (and probably cannot) address, does it still make sense to install from a privacy standpoint?
It isn’t less private than MicroG and Sandboxed so Google gets even less data
No, not really. Again, Google only knows what you willingly tell them. Most of the privacy violations are from the Play Services themselves, not their apps. It doesn’t have those teeth when sandboxed in Graphene. It’s safe to assume that if a person installs Graphene, they’re also smart enough to not use a gmail acct for it that links back to them, doesn’t use email with it, and doesn’t volunteer anything they wouldn’t be OK with Google knowing in the end.
And that would a stupid move by the person, not a failing of the OS. No OS on the planet can protect against a foolish user.
If a person is going to intentionally install and use apps that sell as much data as possible, clearly not, but people that would do something like that are privacy clueless and also wouldn’t be installing Graphene in the first place.
That’s the main thing. I can easily use another email provider with no issues, I can install another OS that respects my privacy. But what if my dumbfuck friends and family use something like snapchat, instagram, or facebook messenger to communicate? I tried to tell them to use signal before but they wouldn’t listen. And I’m not about to stop messaging them anytime soon. And if I use those services, wouldn’t those companies have a good profile on me? Making the effort to be more private pretty useless.
Makes no difference what (their) messenger of choice is, If you send them an SMS, theyll get it. If they’re also on Android, Google Messenger is E2EE when its using RCS and it’ll also work with Samsung’s.
An option if you need to use non foss apps with some people is to use beeper or even better selfhost matrix with bridges. Sign in on beeper for messenger Whatsapp sms etc and revoke network permissions or uninstall the shitty apps