• Gigan@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    1 year ago

    Bush lied to congress and the American people. I don’t believe there were no crimes committed by doing that.

    • meco03211@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      But did Bush knowingly lie to a degree provable in court?

      He would have had to have known it was a lie and for that to be proven in court. With trump, his crimes were so egregious there were devout party line adherents backing out and explicitly stating just how illegal what they were doing is. Trump had been told multiple times, in multiple ways that what he was doing was illegal and he went for it anyways.

      • Bumblefumble@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Another point to add. It is not illegal for anyone to lie, so unless he was testifying under oath, Bush could lie as much as he wanted without legal repercussions.

        • kbotc@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Not quite. The constitution has a cutout for official duties of the office. The president must faithfully carry out the duties of the office. So knowingly lying can fail that test.

          If you want someone to blame for the US invasion of Iraq, blame Italy, their Intelligence apparatus, and Nicolò Pollari in particular. He submitted the “Iraq is buying Yellowcake” to the CIA twice, who figured out it was a forgery before setting a private meeting with the vice president who did not know the CIA had already ruled it out.

          • Archpawn@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            The Constitution lists one crime: treason. He didn’t do that. Not faithfully carrying out the duties of the office is absolutely grounds for impeachment, but it’s not a crime.

          • Bumblefumble@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            It’s not illegal to not do that. The legal framework to deal with that is impeachment and trial by Congress.

            • kbotc@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Not quite. Trump is currently being charged in federal court for his part in lying to overturn the election. They used “knowingly false” 32 times in the indictment for a reason. His defense is not that the president is allowed to lie, but rather that he truthfully believed he was telling the truth, so I’m not sure where you assertion is coming from: It is illegal to lie in furtherance of breaking the law, even for the POTUS.

              • Bumblefumble@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                Trump is not being put on trial for lying per se. The lying however is part of the furtherance of a criminal conspiracy, which is illegal. So with regards to Bush, he can’t be charged with lying to the American people. It can however be used as evidence against him if it was part of furthering a criminal conspiracy.

                • kbotc@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  To the best of my knowledge, we have never put a president on trial for the faithfulness clause (and no, impeachment is not an actual criminal/constitutional trial, no matter how much we treat it as such)

    • Archpawn@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      It’s not illegal to lie to the American people. And it’s practically a requirement for office.