I’m just curious about this. As someone with a chronic illness, I pretty much never hear anyone talk about things related to the sorts of difficulties and discrimination I and others might face within society. I’m not aware of companies or governments doing anything special to bring awareness on the same scale of say, pride month for instance. In fact certain aspects of accessibility were only normalized during the pandemic when healthy people needed them and now they’re being gradually rescinded now that they don’t. It’s annoying for those who’ve come to prefer those accommodations. It’s cruel for those who rely on them.
And just to be clear, I’m not suggesting this is an either or sort of thing. I’m just wondering why it’s not a that and this sort of thing. It’s possible I’m not considering the whole picture here, and I don’t mean for this to be controversial.
I mean, you’re basically describing the point of intersectional activism.
Time for a wiki-kick. I don’t know much about it. I’ve literally been living outside society for over a decade.
Your not alone. Same here. Lots of ideas round here.
It’s harder to throw a parade?
Christ 😂
I’ll settle for a cereal box. :P
This is actually true. Parents of disabled kids were trying to rally in my country for better school support but unfortunately parents of autistic kids couldn’t take them (and many are autistic too) because of the noise and commotion that revolves around a protest. Those are really triggering circumstances and no one wants to be in pain.
It’s really hard for some disabled/chronically ill people to join a protest or a rally/march too. There were a small group of protesters outside Downing Street here in the UK a while back, calling for changes in how disabled people applying for benefits are assessed. I would have loved to join them but it’s so far beyond my capabilities the idea is almost laughable. Creating public awareness or demonstrating your discontent with the status quo is really hard when your practically housebound.
Early Tomm Scott.
Bisexual with an autoimmune disorder here.
I think the simplest explanation is that LGBT acceptance doesn’t cost anyone anything - in fact it’s the opposite as they no longer have to expend energy on hatred and exclusion. Nothing had to be built or spent to give equal rights to a marginalised group, just a signature on some paper. No government funds needed to be allocated to rolling out this change.
It’s much easier to stop doing something current than to start doing something new. Disability/chronic illness accommodations are extremely varied, costly, take time and money to implement, which creates a natural barrier. From an individual perspective, it costs time and energy to help support someone with a disability or chronic condition. It costs no time or energy to agree that everyone should be treated equitably.
There’s the ADA in the States at least.
Used to be no place had ramps and no curb cuts.
Not perfect, but it is better.
I think the ADA is a positive step, but that was over three decades ago now. The silence in terms of further steps since then is significant.
Like what? You want a month? Do you know when National Disability Employment Awareness Month is? I’ll give you a few minutes to go look it up.
Having a month dedicated on a calendar is fine, but it doesn’t mean much if it doesn’t impact society in any significant way.
How about for accessibility and visibility to be the norm, not just something that gets whipped out when the regular folks have a problem.
IIRC, the LGBTQ rights gains of the 2010s were accompanied by the message that it’s not a choice.
Too many people still believe that health and ability are markers of virtue. These people believe that a sick or disabled person must be undersleeping, forgetting their vitamins, being lazy, skipping church, eating junk food, or even thinking negative thoughts. It’s a big lie people tell themselves to feel safe. “I do everything right, so nothing bad can happen to me.”
It won’t get any better until everyone realizes that it can happen to anyone.
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It’s not stupidity, it’s the Just World Hypothesis. A classic example is that thing people do when when driving by a car accident. Many people will look at the wreck and say, “They must have been texting.” Or, “They must have been speeding.” People make up fanfiction to reinforce their feelings of safety. The same thing happens with health and ability.
why did you go straight into attacking their local culture rather then consider this as a fundamental human behavior
Exactly, why insult the fine people of Moronistan? Most Moronistans I met are really nice people. Been there on holiday a couple of times.
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Being visibly disabled in public will bring these people out of the woodwork. You might not associate with any, but they’re everywhere.
Being non-visibly disabled is even worse, people will literally just not believe you if they can’t see it.
That’s been my experience.
Wow, you’re a dick
No chronic illnesses and not LGBTQ here, so please correct me if I get anything wrong.
The reason many LGBTQ issues sees widespread support now wasn’t because governments and companies decided it was ok, it was because of decades of small battles and struggles that really accelerated into widespread acceptance throughout the 10’s, and to which we are already seeing a backlash in terms of the attacks on trans rights (just to note that acceptance is far from complete or just a constant journey in one direction).
Companies adopted pride not because they are allies but because it became more profitable to be pro-LGBTQ than against. Govs don’t work off profitability exactly, but public opinion shifted so far that Obama went from tepidly approving of civil unions to basically every mainstream democrat being pro-LGBTQ now. Even many Republican senators signed on to the Respect for Marriage Act in 2022.
I don’t have a lot of answers for why that doesn’t exist for people with chronic issues / disabilities yet. I’m sure there are many people working to advocate to make it so and I think we all have a responsibility to encourage accessibility as a right. I don’t think anyone saw the acceleration of pro-LGBTQ popular acceptance that was the 10’s coming, and I don’t think you can attribute it to one particular cause. The tough and unsatisfying answer is “it’s complicated,” but I hope that the example of LGBTQ progress can be a source of solidarity and support for advocating for accessibility.
Those of us with chronic disabilities tend to have to be very careful about how we spend our energy. Obviously it varies from person to person, disability to disability. But a lot of us just…can’t. We can’t lobby our local politicians or run for government positions, we can’t go to protests or rallies, we can’t volunteer for campaigns–we just can’t. Or at least, not much. Again, it’ll depend on the person.
And even organizing can take a lot of energy. Someone would have to organize all of us together, across all of these many different disabilities. How do you find them all and reach out to them, let alone manage to do all of that organizing despite your disability?
I know it can happen and that’s how the ADA was created, but the hurdles are great.
Totally fair, and I think that’s why allyship and solidarity are so important. I can’t speak to what it feels like to have a chronic disability, but I can amplify the voices of those who do and help to organize broader coalitions in support of accessibility.
I appreciate the hell out of you, thankyou.
This is exactly it. Many days I can’t even get out of bed. Very little I can do from there.
That’s a fair point. I was reading about Harvey Milk the other day and what the situation was during that time.
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Pride makes money. Companies make money off pride merch and it costs them $0 to be inclusive of LGBT+ people.
But god forbid they do anything beneficial if it doesn’t make them money or gasp cost money. That’s why they actively find new ways to discriminate against disabled people without it being too obvious so they can skirt the law. Plenty of disabled people can do just as good or better at a job than an able bodied person with accommodations, but you’re immediately a threat to a company if you request those accommodations. And then of course, just like anti union propaganda, the general public gets told that disabled people are greedy moochers that need to fuck off out of society.
I worked for a company that is vehemently anti WFH. They had everyone working remotely for all of COVID no problem. But now if a disabled person requests WFH as an accommodation they are told it is “not reasonable” and it is denied. It’s very easy to get away with discrimination against disabled people because a lot of us are just trying to get through the day. Sitting in a court room to fight a company that will extend the lawsuit as long as possible sounds like my own personal nightmare. Hell, speaking of court even FUCKING JURY DUTY won’t accommodate a lot of disabled people. That’s literally the government and they don’t give a fuck. I speak from experience.
Like most things, the answer is money. They want able bodied workers they can make money off the back of for the minimum amount possible.
Sorry this turned into a rant lmao
Wholeheartedly agree. My previous employer was very big into pride and DEI since at least 10 years ago, when it wasn’t as normaliaed as it is today.
However, the office wasn’t wheelchair accessible and I complained about it, took me more than 4 years to get them to do something about it because I’m not a wheelchair user, so my requests got denied every time, absolutely zero empathy despite what they used to promote.
As you said, Pride is free marketing, building a ramp costs money
My company sends out an anonymous survey every year and every year I put “what about disabled people for DEI?” every year and every year it is ignored 🥲
Pride is free marketing, building a ramp costs money
We’re done here. We can close the thread. I don’t know if it’s possible to top that.
People don’t take pride in those things like they do being gay, bi or trans.
Even in that regard, people who have cancer are often portrayed as fighters, survivors and what not. We don’t frame people who deal with chronic issues day in and day out for the rest of their lives that way though, or at least not to the same extent. We don’t treat it as if they have something to teach healthy people about resilience.
At most we have overly happy ads for medicines which constantly mischaracterize what it’s like to live with certain conditions and which give healthy people the perspective that help is just a drug away. I’m not saying those can’t help, but the ads give the impression that if you’re not living a full life, that’s on you because we’re surrounded by miracle cures.
Some mental illnesses are “cool” or “accepted” now. They are socially acceptable to talk about and having one can even give you clout. Depression and ADHD are in this category.
The rest of the disabilities are still too taboo to talk about. You are better off just keeping it to yourself. Bipolar, schizo-affective, and borderline personality disorder are in this category.
Today, people will tell you with a straight face that they are a victim because they have one of the popular illnesses. It is “in” to be a victim now but, ironically, it’s only socially acceptable to be a victim of some illnesses. If you have e.g. bipolar disorder it’s so stigmatized that you will face repercussions for announcing it yet people still have the audacity to tell you they are a victim.
I don’t think it is about taking pride in being ill, pride was just an example. Its likely more about visibility and having rights and accommodations.
Although, they should be proud- not proud to be ill, but proud of their ability. Sick and in pain people have to traverse a world most people could never imagine.
I’m a proud depressive with adhd, don’t ask me anything please leave me alone
❤️
No point in riding bikes, then?
Fellow cripple, chronic pain sufferer who struggles to function in society. It sucks. We get no help. Everybody around us gets help but us
That sounds pretty bitter, and a little misguided.
I’m sure it sucks, but I bet I could find plenty of marginalized groups that get less support per capita.
The ADA has changed construction across the US for decades. Any substantial renovation involves bringing preexisting structures up to code. That is not nothing. I’m sure it’s hundreds of billions of dollars nationally in accommodations.
The ADA has made you a protected class for decades longer than LGBTQ folks.
It might be slower than you want, and I’m sure it’s still not enough, but it is far more than you’re suggesting. And probably receives more money than any other marginalized group in terms of dollars spent on accommodations.
While none of your points are necessarily wrong (although they are mostly vague), none of them do anything to help a disabled person right now.
Everything about this post is vague. Everything about your post is vague. What disability? What help do they need right now?
We have TTY services for the deaf, you can text most places or email with them now instead of calling.
Everything constructed in the last 20 years has ramps, elevators and plenty of handicap parking.
NYC has been spending billions retrofitting elevators into 200 year old subway stations.
Things are being done - but mobility is an infrastructure problem that works on infrastructure timescales.
You can make gay marriage legal overnight, you can’t magically retrofit buildings overnight. You can’t hire 10 million more special needs teachers. You have to train them.
Which is another great area - look at how much more we do for special needs kids in school - they get aides in integrated classes, and far more 1x1 attention than any other kid in a public school.
I am not saying it’s enough, or that anyone is done, but this “no one sees us and no one is helping” thing doesn’t actually ring true to me.
What’s your experience with chronic illness?
That it’s better to not have one than to have one.
Which chronic illness are we talking about? There’s a lot and have wildly different societal needs.
You speak the truth. And Jack O’Neill is awesome (Two l’s!).
Corpos can’t monetize it as easily as they can with lgbqt
Accommodating handicapped people with things like preferential parking, access ramps, etc, occurred in the 1970s and 80s everywhere in the United States, and many other countries have followed suit since then.
Reading down this thread so far, I have yet to see anyone acknowledge the fact that there is infrastructure in place for people with disabling physical conditions. Many physical conditions are still unaddressed, but it’s cherry-picking to willfully ignore something that is in front of our eyes every time we go to a store or cinema, restaurant chain or mall, and say that nothing has been done.
I also believe this is the same type of attitude that leads to thoroughly incomplete and flawed conclusions like “both parties are the same”.
As a sidenote that dovetails nicely, it was Democrats who pushed for handicapped accessibility across the country, while republicans were - of course - indifferent. Yet they went along with it. Nowadays, they would probably sabotage this type of campaign, with a monumental barrage of toxic propaganda.
I’m not aware of people saying nothing has been done, but not every health limitation reduces down to ramps and parking spots as a solution. And if people thinks that’s enough, then it’s just because they haven’t had to live with the conditions which make navigating society incredibly difficult, if not impossible.
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I will add another thing. Many disabled people aren’t working force Because they can’t/there’s no acoomodation, etc What this means is that they don’t generate money And corporations/capitalism don’t care for people who are a burden
A lot of the points here are valid but I personally think it’s partly because disabled people aren’t “pretty”. There’s a narrow band of what’s sort of socially accepted as a disability and if you’re not in that band you’re kinda screwed. If it’s not visible enough you’re faking or overexaggerating or a hypochondriac. If it’s too visible it’s gross and annoying and ‘why are you even out if you need everyone to cater to you?’. And when it comes to issues and accepting them, I feel like most people mainly care about the “normal” people who just happen to be apart of that group. Your Ellen DeGenereses and captain Holts and whatnot. Think about it - whenever you usually see disabilities in media, it’s usually the same set of easily identifiable ones and a lot of the time the character in question has something that negates it in a way and if it is something more nonstandard, it seems like it’s the butt of the joke a lot of the time. And that doesn’t really work for disabilities because of how varied they are and how they often need conflicting things. You can’t just fight for the nice socially acceptable ones and call it a day.
Same goes for mental illness - it feels like most people are still working from the same set of sterotypes where you’re either a deranged maniac or an inaccurate sterotype like a savant with no social skills or maybe a hyper idealised version of said condition. And it’s hard to fight for accommodation when people don’t even understand what you’re fighting for.
A few difficult reasons.
- People with chronic illnesses frequently don’t have the energy to make noise and bring attention to their cause.
- People with significant disability usually aren’t hiding in the halls of power, blending in. It’s significantly easier to hide a non-straight sexuality for long enough that you can be the decision maker who makes reform happen.
- Disability is so varied, one person with one disability can’t know what it is like to have a different one. This stymies cross-disability advocacy. This gets even harder for family of people with disabilities, who only conceptually maybe understand their loved one’s conditions, let alone other people’s
- Accessibility accommodations can be complex and can be expensive, LGBT+ inclusion is extremely easy and low effort by comparison.
- Understanding how disability affects daily life pervasively is harder than understanding “those two people are in love”. Most people internally assume everyone else has roughly the same abilities and needs as themselves.
- People with congenital conditions are frequently conditioned into not asking for better treatment. They get used to being second class citizens because it’s all they’ve ever known.
- “Coming out” with a disability casts doubt on your ability to “perform” in the workplace. It’s very risky, the stigma of disability is huge and impacts how people evaluate you
- Most people with disabilities don’t consider themselves disabled. For example, glasses are one of the world’s most common disability aids, but you’ll never hear them referred to as such; and rarely will their users consider their poor eyesight a disability. Mobility disabilities are often written off as “I’m just getting old” or “I’m just a little unfit lately” or “it’s just an old injury playing up” instead of “I have a medical condition which limits my daily life”.
There’s more, I’m sure I’m forgetting a bunch.
Edited to add a huge one:
- People who are born with disability or who acquire them at a young age are frequently unable to access the type of formal education that allows them to become professionals. This makes it even harder for them to be visible in workplaces, because they’re considered “unskilled”. It also means you won’t see people with disabilities regularly in offices. Out of sight, out of mind for everyone else.
And another:
- Money is medical privilege, and the people with the most money make the types of decisions that affect larger quantities of people. For people with disabilities who are born to wealth or who are able to acquire it, their medical conditions can be better treated, managed and therefore hidden. This can result in those people and the people who surround them to not feel like the illness is “a big deal” and hence it’s not a priority issue. It’s when people with significant money are negatively affected that you begin to hear about the barriers people with no money experience all day long.
This is a great write up. Thank you.
LGBT and chronically ill checking in. So, the biggest reason (in the US) is because the chronically ill haven’t had their civil rights movement. I think a lot of history books gloss over just how many riots there were pre 2000s to gain basic human rights. Pride parades are not just a big party - they’re a commemoration of the stonewall riots. Protests were held annually for years, and cities began sponsoring the marches so they’d become peaceful protests. Now we have parades. It was a constant uphill battle with people fighting against their very existence being illegal. For being jailed, tortured, or murdered for showing their sexuality. For being blamed because someone who’s repressed or in the closet considers someone who’s out to be “temptation”.
LGBT rights are much closer to black and womens rights than they are to chronic illnesses. We don’t see people being jailed for needing a wheelchair, or murdered for having an auto immune disease. If you can get a large number of people to riot for the right to work from home, you might get results. Until then we’ll have to wait until things change through the legal system.
It’s hard to have your movement when you’re disabled. I think we chronically ill will need allies more than other groups have.
That all makes a lot of sense, but I would point out that people with disabilities and illness have been murdered for their conditions even in our recent past. It was actually a story about a German politician wanting to remove kids with disabilities from schools which got me thinking about this. It feels like we’re one or two bad ideas away from persecution of the sick and disabled becoming a very present concern again.
And personally speaking, it is true what you say that I’m not jailed for my condition, but as far societies willingness to extend accommodations to make life more livable for myself and others like me, it’s as if I’ve been largely under house arrest for over a decade. The isolation and anxiety that people experienced for a brief period during the pandemic has been my everyday life for years and years.
