Literally any claim that you made in your comments in this thread, which you made a bunch of.
???
You’re just being purposefully obtuse, I already said that by treating all these oppressed people’s struggles as “identity movements” you’re are belittling and being disrespectful, but you clearly don’t care. By labeling these struggles as “identity driven” you are using the same wording and tactics the alt right uses.
I do agree that most of their fight goes hand in hand with proletarian causes, but no marxist in the world would claim thats the front and center of the cause. Marxists fight for the dictatorship of the proletariat, thats it
I didn’t say it IS front and center, but that it SHOULD be at the forefront for any serious working class movement. Women, Black, LGBT and Indigenous liberation should be a focal point of any mass movement. There’s is literally no dissociating one from the other, these fights all go hand in hand when fighting capitalism and imperialism. But I’m repeating myself yet again.
Im not painting anything. They were homophobic there. Does that make the “whole Black movement” bad? I dont think so.
Yes, you are. The way you are wording this, which you just did again, is that the whole black movement is being homophobic, if that was not your intention, you should have pointed out where it started, by whom, and how the broad movement talked about it and approached it. I asked for proof and you provided none yet again.
This is gonna be my last comment here in this thread, I’m done having to repeat myself.
I disagree with you mostly. But as you stated, theres no point going on with this. I will just point one thing out.
I didn’t say it IS front and center, but that it SHOULD be at the forefront for any serious working class movement. Women, Black, LGBT and Indigenous liberation should be a focal point of any mass movement.
Thats your opinion and thats great. But the point of any marxist movement is to expropriate the means of production from the burguesie and build the dictatorship of the proletariat. You dont have to agree with that, fight for whatever you belive. But dont say that your opinion is what the marxist movement should do.
Thats your opinion and thats great. But the point of any marxist movement is to expropriate the means of production from the burguesie and build the dictatorship of the proletariat
Extremely funny how you hyper focus on these end goals while ignoring the countless amount of theory written by actual revolutionaries on how to progress towards these goals. Do you think communist insurgencies against occupiers happened purely out of poverty? You don’t think they took advantage of the power dynamic imbalance between the nationalities to mobilize the oppressed to kill in a war?
Do you think Hamas is killing Israeli occupiers because they care about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the means of production? No. They’re killing Israelis because they’re committing genocide against Palestinians. Everything else comes later, if at all. They call for Muslims and Arabs and anyone middle eastern to support them. They’re literally an Islamist militia which entails calling Muslims worldwide to physically fight against the enemy. And yet you support their struggle, but you delegitimize Brazilian minorities’ struggles if it’s not purely class. Why? Is it not identity politics? Is it not effective mobilization? Are Muslims the only people who are able to wield identity politics for their needs, or do you just not want to admit you don’t care much about the politics of minorities in your country?
The discussion yesterday was long and boring and the dude at the end was an ahole. So i will asnwer you shortly. I have nothing against the struggle of minorities, im all for it when its genuine, but at least in my country, most of the big/famous identity movements are totally liberal if not mouthpieces for the CIA. If you want to see a recent case Google about the “Black woman in the supreme court”. Tldr: they wanted a Black woman in the supreme court, but turns out all the people they indicated were pro coup. They even put ads in Mumbai and Times Square. Do you really believe its genuine? Do you think it was the garbage collectors (who are mostly non-white here) association who put it out there? Or the prople from the slums? And in the current political situation here, any movement that presents itself as a struggle of minorities but dont talk about class, do not have my confidence
Do you think Hamas is killing Israeli occupiers because they care about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the means of production?
Afaik they are not marxists, i would be surprised if it was their goal. But they fight against imperialism and so they are on the same side of the communists
Literally any claim that you made in your comments in this thread, which you made a bunch of.
You’re just being purposefully obtuse, I already said that by treating all these oppressed people’s struggles as “identity movements” you’re are belittling and being disrespectful, but you clearly don’t care. By labeling these struggles as “identity driven” you are using the same wording and tactics the alt right uses.
I didn’t say it IS front and center, but that it SHOULD be at the forefront for any serious working class movement. Women, Black, LGBT and Indigenous liberation should be a focal point of any mass movement. There’s is literally no dissociating one from the other, these fights all go hand in hand when fighting capitalism and imperialism. But I’m repeating myself yet again.
Yes, you are. The way you are wording this, which you just did again, is that the whole black movement is being homophobic, if that was not your intention, you should have pointed out where it started, by whom, and how the broad movement talked about it and approached it. I asked for proof and you provided none yet again.
This is gonna be my last comment here in this thread, I’m done having to repeat myself.
I disagree with you mostly. But as you stated, theres no point going on with this. I will just point one thing out.
Thats your opinion and thats great. But the point of any marxist movement is to expropriate the means of production from the burguesie and build the dictatorship of the proletariat. You dont have to agree with that, fight for whatever you belive. But dont say that your opinion is what the marxist movement should do.
Extremely funny how you hyper focus on these end goals while ignoring the countless amount of theory written by actual revolutionaries on how to progress towards these goals. Do you think communist insurgencies against occupiers happened purely out of poverty? You don’t think they took advantage of the power dynamic imbalance between the nationalities to mobilize the oppressed to kill in a war?
Do you think Hamas is killing Israeli occupiers because they care about the dictatorship of the proletariat and the means of production? No. They’re killing Israelis because they’re committing genocide against Palestinians. Everything else comes later, if at all. They call for Muslims and Arabs and anyone middle eastern to support them. They’re literally an Islamist militia which entails calling Muslims worldwide to physically fight against the enemy. And yet you support their struggle, but you delegitimize Brazilian minorities’ struggles if it’s not purely class. Why? Is it not identity politics? Is it not effective mobilization? Are Muslims the only people who are able to wield identity politics for their needs, or do you just not want to admit you don’t care much about the politics of minorities in your country?
The discussion yesterday was long and boring and the dude at the end was an ahole. So i will asnwer you shortly. I have nothing against the struggle of minorities, im all for it when its genuine, but at least in my country, most of the big/famous identity movements are totally liberal if not mouthpieces for the CIA. If you want to see a recent case Google about the “Black woman in the supreme court”. Tldr: they wanted a Black woman in the supreme court, but turns out all the people they indicated were pro coup. They even put ads in Mumbai and Times Square. Do you really believe its genuine? Do you think it was the garbage collectors (who are mostly non-white here) association who put it out there? Or the prople from the slums? And in the current political situation here, any movement that presents itself as a struggle of minorities but dont talk about class, do not have my confidence
Afaik they are not marxists, i would be surprised if it was their goal. But they fight against imperialism and so they are on the same side of the communists