Edit: I didn’t post the following quotes to say he’s a communist. He’s pivoting to centre-left positions with his rhetoric and 6 year plan. He called for reducing poverty by 2% in 6 years and for progressive taxation on the rich.
The true elite are all those serving Russia. Workers and soldiers, reliable, trustable, who have proven their devotion to Russia, the worthy people.
“The very word ‘elite’ has largely been discredited by those who, having no merit to society, consider themselves to be some kind of a caste with special rights and privileges. I specifically mean those who, in previous years, filled their pockets through all sorts of processes in the economy of the 1990s. Those are definitely not the elite,” the president said.
The claim is wrong. Queer folk aren’t criminalized, this isn’t Saudi Arabia.
Putin says LGBTQ people are party of society albeit he has conservative takes, his only request is that minors aren’t targeted. Adults can do whatever.
https://www.rt.com/russia/587507-putin-unexpected-lgbtq-thing/
When he was asked by about his gay propaganda law (This only concerns homosexual material from being given to minors) and the role of the church. He reiterated being gay would not be banned and that there’s a seperation between Church and State in Russia. There are many rabid Russian Orthodox Christians who want gays out, Putin isn’t one of them.
Russia is more tolerant than most of the global south. LGBT organizations aren’t allowed since they tend to be aligned with the west but no one is sent to prison for simply for being queer. The government even updated their documents to make it easier for trans people.
In Saudi Arabia and other global south countries, you don’t need to be showing homosexual material to minors to be in trouble.
Come on buddy, you can’t be that dumb.
If you can back up your claim then go ahead. Gays have never been persecuted in Russia for simply being gay as a policy under Putin.
i think you misunderstand criminalization of queer media as being totally separate from the persecution of queer people in general. banning queer media to “protect the kids” is part of the process of removing queer people from public life entirely.
I was gonna say, I have no reason to take American conservatives at their word when they say they just want to “protect the children” and their counterparts abroad don’t seem much different in that regard.
Say that ground gets ceded to them — do they stop there? No, no they don’t. They just move the goalposts and try to ratchet down on us harder. If you can’t get your real goal immediately, nudge slowly until you can go in for the kill. That’s not even a gay rights thing, that’s just how political movements in general operate.
my logic to here is that the desire to attack the former implies the desire to attack the latter.
So far as I care, any attack on the movement - any attempt to draw lines for us at all for any reason - is an attack on me personally.
He’s made it clear the latter won’t happen. He’s said that queer people should be represented in society. Albeit with conservative rehtoric.
https://www.rt.com/russia/587507-putin-unexpected-lgbtq-thing/
i’m not saying it is going to happen. i am saying it is already happening. putin’s rhetoric in this article does not match his policy. the law clearly discriminates against queer people in media (not even bringing up marriage or trans discrimination laws). minimizing the effect of this policy on queer people and society in general is honestly disturbing.
The same situation exists in China by the way (homosexual TV dramas banned since 2016, no gay marriage, no transitioning for minors). I believe it would be an exaggeration to say it is in the “process of removing queer people from public life entirely” ? Homosexual marriage is a poor yardstick for LGBT rights. Russia and China are also sexually conservative not just with minors being exposed to homosexuality but with heteronormative porn as well.
The following is written by someone who worked with Soviet authorities to save thousands of homosexuals and the president of the largest European gay political association, Ornicar Project on European countries perpetuating LGBT discrimination and how gay marriage is used as a mask. https://www.voltairenet.org/article213494.html
Russia:
https://polit.ru/news/2008/05/23/donors/ —> 2008 Russia allows men who have sex with men to donate blood
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-duma-rejects-antigay-coming-out-bill/27562736.html —> 2016, the Communist Party’s draft resolution to ban homosexuals from coming out is unanimously rejected.
2018, Russia’s health ministry makes it easier for Transgender people to change their gender on legal documents.
2023, The mechanism is removed completely, making it impossible to change the gender marker.
The mechanism for changing gender marker in the documents was removed last year. Trans people cannot change it anymore, and by extention cannot get surgeries or hormones. Whatever, yes.
At the start of this year, “LGBT movement” was deemed to be “extremist” and forbidden. IIRC, an org that was providing legal assistance to LGBT people (including with the cases when people were denied changing gender marker when it was still available) was shut down, others had changed their processes to make it less risky (stricter control of who enters chats, for example). Wearing something like a pride pin can be considered as “supporting LGBT movement” => “supporting extremism” => repeat offences are a felony.
As in “as long as they do not peek out of their closets”.
wwwwww
State-controlled organisations (Russian Cinema Fund, state-controlled TV channels that I am unwillingly listening to every day) promote orthodox christianity HARD, and the church promotes state’s decisions and all of reactionary shit about us, about “traditional values”, about “духовные скрепы”, and more, which, again, I am hearing on state-controlled TV channels. Separated, yes.
Again, as long as they do not even peek out of their closets.
ор выше гор блять, НЕТУ 087/у БОЛЬШЕ, КАКОЙ БЛЯТЬ ЛЕГЧЕ
I am not sure but it might be possible but unfortunately not easily accessible.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/07/14/its-hell-russias-transgender-community-rushes-to-undergo-gender-reassignment-as-legal-ban-looms-a81839
I will repeat it: THE PROCEDURE DOES NOT EXIST ANYMORE. It does not. There is no way to do it. 087/u, the document that proves that a person has legally changed their gender, does not have any power. I don’t remember exactly, but I think f64 does not provide the ability to get HRT and is only useful in other countries to get HRT there, if that is needed.
Here, the third page of the bill that was accepted in summer of 2023: http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/document/0001202307240059?index=3
It is written that “medical intervention that is focused on changing a person’s gender is prohibited, including HRT and surgeries”. Giving 087/u is a medical intervention, and so it does not have any power now.
Page 4, the “fact of gender change” is replaced with a long string that amounts to “the official comission checks that the genitals match the given gender”. I am too lazy now to check where that change is, but you can see that the procedure of changing the gender marker is no longer recognised there.
Feed it into an OCR, ask any RU person to digest it to you if you do not trust me.
The cases where gender marker was changed after the procedure removal were only because the people applied for it before the ban and got a “we won’t do it because the procedure will dissappear soon” from the place where they went (МФЦ or МВД), and that still required going to a court because the request rejection should not have happened on the “it’ll be impossible soon” premise.
IIRC there’s special procedure for intersex infants, but I, and other people, are not intersex nor infants.
Please, please make sure your knowledge is up-to-date. It’s infuriating, being told “actually it’s possible” after I have witnessed the entire thing, from its proposition, when people were like “they will probably require doing surgeries”, to its first appearance in the gosduma, when we got to read the bill and scream, to all three (IIRC, they could have done all three readings in one day, there’s no one to stop them from doing so, this time they were separate) readings, to its acceptance there, to its acceptance in “Совет федерации”, to it being signed by the pres. and published, which is when it came into power.
I’m tired and angry.
P.S: I remember that head of Minzdrav (ministry of health) was harshly talked down by the entire gosduma when they tried to oppose the bill. And, as a fun fact, nearly the entire gosduma, several hundred people, are listed as authors of the bill (again, IIRC). This is to say that there are no factions, it is a monolith.
Removed by mod
So we went from “wholesale criminalization of queer folk” to “It’s the same thing”.
Here’s the difference: Conservatives in America want LGBT to be banned because they say they are pedos targetting children.
Whereas Putin is conservative in regards to wanting children to make the choice when they grow up. It’s like freedom of religion in China, you have to be over 18.
There’s still a massive difference between those societies that actually criminalize homosexuality and Russia which decriminalized it, you refuse to see that. And I have seen that you call Russia imperialist like the other western social-chauvinists. It’s quite clear you don’t want to discuss or learn, so here’s your ban.
Except being queer isn’t a choice you make when you’re an adult. There are plenty of queer kids who discovered their gender or sexuality early enough to know. They’ve banned anything even remotely educational that isn’t just cisheteronormative, how is that beneficial to kids?
I never implied it was beneficial, I just said that that is as far as his conservatism goes.
It was in reply to someone saying that Putin was criminalizing being queer wholesale, which is false.
If you ban anything and everything that helps queer people understand themselves and their bodies better you’re de facto banning queer people, especially when there’s no effort to actually support them.
He hates rainbow imperialism (the usual excuse), cool, why not replace it with normalization of queer people? Education on queer people and how we’ve always been a part of the human experience, and how we’re being used for the purpose of imperialism. Medical programs that could help kids transition easier. Instead it’s about “traditional values”; they’re even starting up a program for American bigots who rightfully get cancelled for their bigotry to live in Russia under the guise of “conservative views”, the very same conservative views that brought colonialism to African shores and forced them to change their culture. This is what those people celebrate.
So no I’m not giving him a pass for any of that.