u/ThePoopOutWest - originally from r/GenZhou
I know there are differences between Deng’s China and, say, Gorbachev’s USSR or post 1986 Vietnam, but I’m not sure what they are. I suspect it has to do with control by a principled party but I could be off. Can someone help?
Edit: to clarify, I’m not one of those who will say “China and America??? Basically the same!!!” or that Deng is revisionist. Was just more curious about what the reforms were in both examples and how they fall in a Marxist analysis
u/Ganem1227 - originally from r/GenZhouWhat weaknesses did CPSU have that made them turn their backs on socialism? Surely this was a problem that existed before Khruschev and finally exposed itself after Stalin’s death. There’s no way the CP just collectively pivoted in the wrong direction out of nowhere.
u/Green_Plant57 - originally from r/GenZhouYou’re absolutely right. This was an issue that had existed within the party before Khrushchev and only manifested after the death of Stalin. I’m not well read on this issue and would also like to learn more if anybody has resources.
That being said, it definitely wasn’t a collective pivot. The whole party didn’t abandon the core of marxism all at once. My guess for what happened was the party failed to screen for opportunists and revisionists and once they reached leadership above the party congress, they were able to corrode the integrity of the party, eventually leading to its demise. The purges attempted to get rid of them, but it’s clear that didn’t work considering they still remained.
u/eisagi - originally from r/GenZhouI would give a parallel explanation - the USSR existed under a different set of external and internal pressures than the PRC.
A. China was always relatively geographically sheltered (mountains, deserts, oceans) and dwarfed all its neighbors; Imperial Japan could challenge China, but then it was destroyed and occupied. Russia was always open to invasion and neighbored economically more advanced Europe where it was only one among several Great Powers. The USSR, even under Stalin, sought accommodation with Western Europe and buffer states to guarantee its security.
B. Having buffer states and great historic ethnic and religious diversity contributed to disunity within the CPSU. There were natural conflicts of interest between the center and the periphery, the developed West and the undeveloped East, etc…
C. During the Cold War, the USSR was seen as the source of all Communist movements in the world and was targeted for elimination. The US opened up trade with China in order to isolate the USSR.
In sum, the USSR always existed under a greater degree of threat and competition. Its leaders made choices accordingly - many wrong ones, as it turned out. But it wasn’t just that opportunists and revisionists appeared from thin air - their environment encouraged them to compromise principles, back down under pressure, and look out for the narrow interests of their own subgroup.
u/Azirahael - originally from r/GenZhou1: During the Great Patriotic War, the CPSU was all but depopulated, as most of the party members were killed at the front.
2: Historically they were always understaffed.
3: USA infiltrated the economics areas of CPSU. in the 80’s nearly all of them were convinced that capitalism was just better.
4: USA was playing nice, and the cracks had not started to show.
5: a good chunk of CPSU just really thought things were gona get better. Sure, it sucks, but capitalism just works. We had a good run, but it’s over. Then the Looting and death happened, and they discovered that the hardliners were right, all along.
6: China had all this as a warning what would happen.