More than 60% of Brits want to re-join the EU with nearly the same number saying Britain was wrong to leave in the first place, a new poll shows.
I think if they were told the truth about Brexit they’d never would have voted for it in the first place.
They were told the truth. Most of the truth was ignored and anything left was successfully spun as “project fear”.
This also applies to rejoining.
Surprised its only 62% TBH.
Most of the other 38% probably don’t want it dominating the news for another 4 years
I think it’s boomers dying off. I don’t think it is people changing their minds. Sad really.
Yeah there is no chance for a rejoin if it’s only slightly above 60% after all the shit that happened.
FPTP is a crime against democracy. Anyone supporting FPTP might as well admit that they don’t really like democracy.
I agree but. How else would we have done a simple yes/no poll?
Not that we should have went through with a 1% swing on something that would have such a massive impact.
A minimum voter turnout of 50% and a two-thirds majority.
I thought you were talking about Fibre To The Premises for a second and was going to fight you.
My take, for what it’s worth, is that we don’t even have FPTP in the UK, we have Winner Takes All, since they don’t even need to get 50% to win, they just need to be the most popular which could mean 21% of votes with four similarly-popular opponents.
WTA/FPTP asks the question “who is the most popular?”; AV asks “who can the voters agree to compromise on?”; STV asks “who best represents the voters?”
My take, for what it’s worth, is that we don’t even have FPTP in the UK, we have Winner Takes All, since they don’t even need to get 50% to win
That’s exactly what FPTP is - the candidate who gets the largest number of votes wins, regardless of whether their vote share is 1% or 51%. It’s horribly undemocratic.
I don’t really believe that 60% of the British want to get back into the EU, if they don’t get their old advantages back.
The mere fact that they would have to give up the pound and introduce the euro would deter many from rejoining.
But one can hope that this will change in the coming decades and that the UK will eventually become a member again.
Euro adoption is a red herring. Plenty of EU member states are conceptually signed up to joining the euro at some point in the future and have no intention of ever doing anything about that - it’s pure symbolism.
So the Bregret begin
It would need to stay at these numbers for the next ten years, politicians from all parties would need to start waxing lyrical about EU membership through at least one election cycle if not two. The degenerate eurohating media would also need to be lobotomized somehow.
Until that happens the EU won’t touch UK membership with a shitty stick.
It would need to stay at these numbers for the next ten years
The number of voters believing Brexit was the wrong idea have consistently exceeded those believing it is the right idea in polling since about mid-2017. We’re already 6 years into your 10.
The reason there was so much clamour for a second referendum in 2017-19 (a manifesto policy of parties accounting for >50% of the votes cast at the 2019 general election) is because the polling consistently showed Remain would have won it.
Polling numbers showed a 50/50 split in intent to vote back in 2016.
We have increased from 50% wanting to remain to 60% wanting to go back? It doesn’t feel like good enough numbers to convince anyone that enough has changed.
I don’t understand how people walk around the supermarkets observing the massive gaps on the shelves and thinking that Brexit was a good thing.
The government has delayed full import checks yet again until January because the system isn’t ready yet and the fact it will make matters worse.
They just want our straight bananas! Don’t let them in!
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You have to understand that people like OP and Brexitiers are essentially one in the same. Like rabid football fans whose team must crush your team at all costs. They’re kids in their mentality and kids they will stay. To the detriment of everyone else. What seems to work with them is who can spout the most vitriolic nonsense. Just look at what her original post as an example.
Fuck these people.
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Yeah that’s not how the EU works and also a very simplistic way of looking at the world and global politics. In the UK 48% of people voted to remain so to lump an entire country together simplistically is naive. In the UK general election the Tories got 43.6% of the vote but because of our flawed democracy the tories got absolute power and that allowed them to pursue their aggressive and bombastic version of Brexit.
In any democracy people can change their minds and should be encouraged to do so, not aggressively condemend forever. The UK would likely be welcome to rejoin the EU; poltically it would strengthen the EU to show that leaving is negative and rejoining remains beneficial. It was also strengthen the argument that the EU needs to integrate further as a block because the hostile competing world of blocks such as the US, China, Russia and in the future India we’ll be better together. But the UK would have to rejoin without all the opt-outs etc established over the original membership.
However the poll is of limited value; there really is not a clamouring to rejoin the EU at present. It’s also not likely to be a simple thing to convince people to rejoin - the threshold for leaving was in many ways lower than the threshole for rejoining. Rejoining the EU now would mean no opt out for the Euro (which remains unpopular in the UK), and financially supporting the Common Agricultural Programme which is a mess. It also has to be said, leaving the EU has not been as bad as had been painted and negative elements have been obscured by the Covid pandemic in people’s minds.
The UK leaving the EU has been grossly simplified into a “good vs evil” narrative, in large part because of the idiocy and behaviour of the UK Government and Boris Johnson - the UK’s Donald Trump. The reasons for the UK leaving have been simplified into “ignorance and stupidity” so the many of the other reasons have been ignored and the EU has done nothing to address genuine flaws.
For example the conflicts between freedom of movement and the effects on jobs markets for low skilled segments of the population - that drove a lot of people in less prosperous “leave” areas to vote for leaving. Those people have been exploited by Leave campaigners, and the problem is certainly not entirely related to the EU (it is also part of the globalisation debate as well as major failures in UK government in evening economic growt). But the EU still has issues to address about the conflict between the benefits of freedom of movement overall versus the poorer economic areas in all countries that do not seem to be benefiting. That has all been obscured by the noise and simplification of the narrative over Brexit. Also there are many other major problems: the broken and distorted CAP, the flaws in the Eurozone which were exposed in the 2011 financial crisis, the failure of the EU to manage it’s outer borders together and the democractic deficit at the heart of the EU. Also just look at the inability of the EU to deal with authoritarian regimes such as Hungary and increasingly Poland.
It’s an easy and lazy narrative to dismiss the UK leaving the EU as “madness”, “stupidity” and “you made you bed, now lie in it”. There are certainly elements of that, but it obscures a truely hugely complex and more nuanced picture and that harms both the EU and the UK. I wanted to remain, and it’s nice to see polls switching from being 50:50 to more pro-EU but that does not mean a referendum in favour of rejoining the EU would succeed. The political will is just no there yet and the
If the UK voted to rejoin and the EU accepted that, there is no chance that they would get all the same demands like last time. Like no Schengen and no euro.
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Why weren’t there massive strikes and protests? Why wasn’t London completely shut down if such a large part of the people there felt like what was happening was not what they wanted.
There were dozens of enormous anti-Brexit protests in London and in cities across the country over the course of several years.
It wasn’t like this was a quick thing either, this went on for years, with the EU saying multiple times the UK didn’t have to leave and could just remain if they wanted.
Because the party that was in government had been taken over by fringe Brexit extremists and didn’t care what the British voters wanted. Even then, they struggled to get enough of their own MPs to support them which is why it took many dozens of chaotic votes over several years - plus an illegal suspension of Parliament that the courts had to step in to overrule - before they were able to ram their deal through.
Even at the 2019 general election, a clear majority of voters voted for parties that were committed to a second referendum to allow us to stop Brexit, but the Tories ignored the voters and went ahead anyway.
You seem really uninformed about the nature of the Brexit debate in the UK between 2016 and the UK’s exit in 2020.
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Also I was imagining more like French style protest, burning the whole damn thing down.
So, fundamentally we think of ourselves as a democracy. Particularly for the liberal educated middle-class people who accounted for much of the Remain vote, it’s an important tenet of faith that political ends are things that should be achieved at the ballot box, not on the street.
Turns out you can’t have a discussion about the EU on a UK-based Lemmy community without someone randomly popping up who can’t comprehend that the UK isn’t a hive-mind and also seems to think they speak for the EU.
Happens every single time.
i think you’re mostly right. our country did not commit properly to the EU project. we were constantly looking for opt-outs and excuses.
in the UK’s defense for not joining at the start, we were vetoed twice by Charles De Gaulle. i wonder what the timeline would have looked like, had this not happened. 🙁
i dont think the UK should be let back in to the EU any time soon, but would you consider a longer term, distant future where the UK, or more likely it’s component countries, are admitted back into the EU? certainly on terms that require full integration, with absolutely no opt-outs? what is your take on that?
i ask because i’m looking to escape to the EU myself at some point, but it would be disheartening to see if people there don’t like us solely because of our government being stupid enough to hold a referendum for a political gamble.
Who is the ‘you’ you keep referring to in this scenario? It’s certainly not me, or my friends, or my family, or the people I work with.
It’s not a majority of the voters in the wider UK anyway - the age breakdown of the referendum result and some basic demographic maths tells us that, of the people who cast a vote on that particular day in June 2016 who are still alive today, a majority voted Remain - and that’s before your even add in the huge numbers of people who have turned 18 since 2016 who skew heavily Remain/Rejoin too.
So really I ask - what the fuck are you talking about?
Imagine not seeing the manipulation that lead to the (minority of the actual voting population) leave vote, and thinking your own government isn’t doing the same shit to you on whatever relevant topic.
That’s a lot of anger to carry for the wrong bunch of people, but hey, you do you…
This is like as dumb as leaving was. You want to deny the bloc one of the largest economies on Earth, a financial center of the world? Over hurt feelings?
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I think it’s this kind of childish language with absolutely no nuance and a myopic understanding of history that puts people off the EU project.
You’re as worse as the Brexitiers with how you choose to talk to other people. It’s your way or fuck off. Both you removed should quite honestly stay away from politics and at the very least tone down your rhetoric.
Boooo, second chance! Second chance!
