Moon mining gains momentum as private companies plan for a lunar economy::A number of entrepreneurial groups have shared their strategies to turn the moon into a hustle and bustle world of marketable services.
We should declare the moon like a national park (global park) and preserve it as is.
Why? I would rather have preservation on earth, than on the moon.
You are kidding right? The moon is essential for life on Earth.
Not sure building a moon base to launch spaceships from is going to be the end of the world
Building a (single) moon base is no the same as focusing on mining the shit out of it.
As long as the mass stays broadly the same, I don’t see the issue?
There should be some rules put in place prior to moon mining. America’s national parks allow some oil drilling but there are rules and public input that is allowed.
That’s to protect fauna and flora, zero of which exist on the moon.
I’d be happy to see lights from moonbased operations from earth
It’s also a desolate wasteland we might as well extract the resources from to jump off to better locations in the solar system.
The presence of all that material up there is essential to life on Earth (via the tides).
Its surface features are not: in fact you would need massive megastructures for people down here to even notice any change to those features.
Absolutelly, lets not remove the Moon when we get to the point of being capable of doing so, but that’s an entirelly different level of preservation than making the whole thing be preserved according to the same rules as national parks.
How so? More essential than the Earth?
I assume you’re referring to the tidal forces that the moon provides. If so: We could strip-mine the dark side of the moon (to prevent any aesthetic impact to earthers) for millennia and barely even scratch the surface (hah) of the total mass of Luna. We’re not going to throw a world-eater at it.
I don’t know why they are downvoting you. The only explanation would be the sheer lack of knowledge on how much larger and massive the moon is compared to everything humanity has mined and could mine for millions of years
I think my account is getting targeted by some bots. A lot of my comments lately are, a while after I post them, get an identical number of downvotes to upvotes, but all at once. I’m gonna investigate it a bit more thoroughly this weekend when I have some free time. I’ve seen posts indicating a nontrivial amount of other users may be experiencing similar things too, so this might be a coordinated effort of some sort, though I have no idea what the goal might be other than to just try to irritate people and push posts and comments down.
We’re not going to throw a world-eater at it
Yet.
Try never
An airless desert impossible to reach for and with zero impact (even indirect) on the life of for 99.999% of people, with almost as much surface are as the whole of the Americas and which is entirelly devoid of life and always will be, is the last place you need to preserve.
Ew. This sounds like massive public investment in space for massive private profits in space.
Looks like we’ll be at our Expanse style dystopia sooner than expected!
Rather expance style than say, the road
It’s like we have learnt nothing, “let’s strip another celestial body of its minerals then fuck off onto the next when we have had our fill.”
The difference is, there is no natural life to kill on the moon, and if it turns out to be possible, maybe even easier, to mine for necessary metals on the moon then Earth-side mining won’t be necessary
Also, being able to get resources on the moon without having to ship them there from Earth will make it much easier and cheaper to launch spaceships to the rest of the solar system.
So I have two questions from that.
-
How much mass can we remove from the moon until we affect it’s rotation around earth?
-
What will the ecological impact on earth be if a dozen companies start launching rockets at the moon on a regular basis?
Mining enough to alter the orbit of the moon would require a pretty ridiculous amount of time and effort. Much more than our global mining efforts combined and multiplied and on a timescale of thousands of years.
And we only have to launch a few rockets, enough to set up a self-sufficient base which can then produce more rockets and fuel from resources on site. Not to mention it’s much easier, and even feasible with existing materials, to build a space elevator on the moon.
Would it not be super cool to have all those minerals until we have extracted that much from the moon that it’s orbit becomes unstable and then spirals into earth?
First, figure out how much the Moon weighs. The find out how much we mine form the Earth each year.
Second, the impact of dozens of flights a day will be much less than the impact of mining the Earth
-
I think the shipping costs between earth and moon are ridiculous. Moon manufacturing only makes sense for supplying moon bases and transportation to other planets.
From Earth to the moon for sure, but once it’s established, from the moon to Earth isn’t as tough.
Wasn’t the Moon’s gravity low enough that you could basically use electromagnetic cannons to launch payloads from the surface all the way out of lunar orbit?
In the absence of an athmosphere and with only 16.6% of Earth’s gravity, achieving orbit from the Moon isn’t simply “not as though” as doing so from Earth, it’s incredibly less so (maybe 100s of times, though I don’t really have the numbers so take it with a grain) - just compare the full size (including boosters) and fuel payload of the vehicle needed to put 3 people on the Moon and those of the vehicle needed to bring them back to Earth (granted, the first vehicle had to also carry the second one, plus food, water and air for the first part of the trip).
Being at the bottom of a 1G well and having to also overcome quite a lot of air drag to get out of it massivelly adds up to the energy needed to do so, both because the whole getting out of a gravity well thing is a logarithmic progression (as you need to spend fuel to haul up the fuel that’s going to be used higher u), so overcoming 6x the gravity doesn’t just mean using 6x the fuel, and on top of that there are the the losses due to drag in the lower athmosphere which for example severely limit initial launch speeds (as drag is directly proportional to velocity).
If you haven’t read it yet, try ‘The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress,’ by Robert Heinlein. It was written in the 1960s, so some of the tech is a teeny-weeny bit outdated but the story is still great.
I don’t know anything about EM canons but between the moon having a relatively weak gravity well and being within Earth’s gravity well, I’d think any method would be much easier to use when it comes to transport to Earth
Ok so I did a small bit of research and found optimistic estimates from groups promoting this of $800kg. You can’t just throw shit at earth, you have to put it down safely. In reality what makes sense is manufacturing stuff that you then don’t have to bring up to the moon, or to mars, or anywhere else off of earth. You build it on the moon instead.
IDK $800/kg sounds pretty great compared getting from Earth into Earth orbit at $54,000/kg. Doing something like manufacturing and launching satellites would probably become pretty viable once it’s set up.
Ya less gravity to fight… I’m curious what the numbers look like though, it’s gotta be much more expensive than bringing stuff over on a boat from China. What advantages would mining on the moon provide?
Independence from China
Why? If it is in fact cost efficient the Chinese will be there too and will do it better at lower cost.
No, they won’t necessarily do it better or cheaper. You know the primary reason China has such cheap terrestrial manufacturing is because they have an absolutely massive population, most of whom are a good bit lower on the socioeconomic scale than western consumers, and the country overall has generally poor human rights and worker protections, right? There are reasons Chinese manufacturing is inexpensive, and the reasons aren’t very nice.
Cheap labor was China’s foot in the door 30 years ago. Now they instead compete at the highest levels. It is very similar to how Japan and South Korea developed their modern economies.
Come on, they can just throw stuf down from the moon…
Man I thought by 2023 I’d be taking my jetpack to my moon meetings not arguing over whether we should strip mine the damn place.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Honestly I think a solar farm on the moon would be much better investing in at some point. I remember reading an article where a nation was experimenting with beaming energy down from orbit or some shit
Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
Why do you keep saying that?
'Cause they pay me every time I do. You’re so smart, why don’t you know that?
Because fuck you, he’s eating. Eating an extra big-ass fries.
Do you want Morlocks? Because that’s how you get Morlocks.
We must not allow capitalism to escape this planet
The one place yet to be corrupted by capitalism:
SBACE
Tim Curry in shambles.
I’m sure the Chinese are just as interested in this.
You mean the discount capitalists?
That doesn’t stop champagne leftists supporting it and Russia does it?
I can see the war for the moon coming over the horizon
