One thing that those who advocate for voting blue that fail to acknowledge is the fact that 8 years of Obama gave us Trump but also Bernie. So what exactly would change with Biden? Under Trump the left movement hasn’t shrunk it’s growing alongside the far right. This is inevitable when capitalism is failing.
Would these so called socialists acting as radical liberals proceed to stunlock us into constantly voting out fascism? How insane is that? If going forward in 4 years and Biden had won, the Republicans nominated an even bigger populist than Trump what then? Would the strategy just be voting blue neoliberals just to keep fascism at bay?
We are already in a drain and Biden will only slow the water but not stop it. Neoliberal austerity has run it’s course and the only future we have is protectionist far right policy or Socialism and I doubt the ruling class wants to give concessions when it’s so easy to force the populis to hate itself if foreigners than the ruling class itself. What happens when were stunlocked and the masses don’t see any other way out? These people really think Biden will provide a respite for the deep shit we’re in. Even pragmatically it makes no sense, in order to radicalize moderates? What? Those same moderates voted for fucking Obama twice and then voted for Trump because he wasn’t Hillary. How the fuck is Biden going to be a radicalizing factor? The left has been doing it itself despite Obama or Trump, it’s still growing nonetheless.
This idea that Biden will somehow stop fascism is so nonsensical and insane that they would be the exact kind of people that contribute to fascism. They force people through shaming that they cannot vote third party like PSL or Green cuz they won’t change shit, well of course they won’t change shit, it’s just a way to show solidarity. Heck if the Greens get enough votes they’ll get federal funding and we have to agitate somehow. Beyond that we organize into organs of worker’s power but fucking joe biden? I couldn’t in good conscience or pragmatically say it’s the only thing to do because somehow it’ll stop fascism which is what this shit is predicated on. Fascism will continue so long as the world order of neoliberalism continues and the people do not see a material change. To fucking go back to business as usual as if we’re not already beyond going back to normal is insane, go back to “normal neoliberalism”? Only to what in 4 years see another Trump who promises people to get us out of the corrupt status quo all over again?
Here’s a thought, the winning hand is the masses, we put our trust in them and organize with them instead of playing this game of lesser evilism which is exactly what put in this damn place.
Would these so called socialists acting as radical liberals proceed to stunlock us into constantly voting out fascism? How insane is that? If going forward in 4 years and Biden had won, the Republicans nominated an even bigger populist than Trump what then? Would the strategy just be voting blue neoliberals just to keep fascism at bay?
Yes, they would. As long as they do not perceive a good alternative. Their reasoning is, as long as we’re not strong enough or have enough legitimacy in the US, then they may as well hamper fascism. They say that Trump emboldens fascists. They say emboldened fascists may target their communities. They say better a neoliberal than a fascist. They say they don’t want to be shoved into unmarked vans on the street. They say that Biden might make things at least somewhat better domestically.
Of course, they’re gonna ignore what a Biden administration may do overseas. Why would they care? Actually, if you’re a USian why would you care? Solidarity with South Americans, Asians, Africans feels good, but what it will not do is feed you or your family. It will not save you if you think Trump might shove you into a van. This is not to say I’m justifying their behaviour, it’s just what I would expect as a materialist.
Here’s a thought, the winning hand is the masses, we put out trust in them and organize with them instead of paying this game of lesser evilism which is exactly what put in this damn place.
Have you in your entire life, ever attempted to tell them this? Do you think people like Contrapoints or Vaush haven’t heard this (I assume by ‘our’ you mean the majority radlibs that make up the movement in the US)? What is their reaction when you tell them? Do they agree with you?
For the most part they do answer with “that if you do not vote for Biden it’s a vote for fascism”, except that Trump is the symptom of a larger problem that won’t simply go away. But of course they do not agree, they seem to see Trump as a freak accident and not the result of decades of neoliberal austerity. The divisions and contradictions will remain whether Biden is president of Trump and will continue.
And when I say put my trust in the masses I mean continue to build support structures outside the system, like BLM. And despite the social democrats in DSA it’s nonetheless a good thing in the grand scheme of things. We need mass organizations that employ the mass line in order to build up a force instead of relying on the electoral system which those radlibs throw all their eggs into. The fact that the DSA in conjunction with other organizations have pushed forward their members into government is a good thing in the end when it comes to working within the system as is.
It’s a struggle on many fronts, and staking it all on the president is a mistake in my opinion.
Here’s a thought, the winning hand is the masses, we put out trust in them and organize with them instead of paying this game of lesser evilism which is exactly what put in this damn place.
No, I mean how do they respond to this ^ specific quote you made? I know what you mean, I’m interested to know what their response is to being told to organize instead of voting for the “lesser evil”.
Oh right, that this is the one “special time” when we should all collectively vote Biden to steer us away from fascism. Ignoring what led us to a Trump in the first place. They often ignore the masses and their material conditions and forget what’s going on locally.