Not gonna lie, being in good faith, the Chinese government having a 90% approval rate looks sus, at least to a Westerner. The West looks at this and shouts “That means they are brainwashed!” which I don’t buy into. Yet that idea that all these anti-imperialist people are just brainwashed really, well, brainwashes a lot of people. How can this be countered?

  • DankZedong A
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    271 year ago

    Cuba can be easily countered if you look at their recent policies. Somehow libs get convinced when they see that a vast majority of Cuban people voted in favor of something like LGBTQ+ rights. Can’t be brainwashed if you are progressive, right?

    For the rest, I don’t bother too much. I just tell people it’s stupid to think more than a billion people can get brainwashed so easily, especially if you look at how chaotic the west can get. This might be an easy way out, but recently I can’t be bothered too much.

    • SovereignState
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      281 year ago

      Westerners cannot imagine believing their government properly represents them because theirs never have. Similarly, since our news media skews so heavily destructive or negative, constructive and positive news pieces coming out of the DPRK and China look like naivete and lies to the jaded westerner.

      There can be no good state, for our state is bad. There can be no good news, for our news is bad. There can be no peaceful state, as our state vies for war. There can be no freedom from poverty, as we are all poor. There can be no anti-imperialism, as our state is imperialist. Every country must be comitting genocide, as our state is. On and on and on, compounded and compounded. It’s depressing to say the least, to have so little hope in humanity so as to believe homo amerikanus and homo europaeus are the measuring block for nation-building worldwide, when human beings (and their states!) around the world are demanding a rupture from status quo suffering.

    • @Munrock
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      141 year ago

      I often use Cuba as the starting point and the litmus test. The absurdity of Havana Syndrome, the human rights violations in Guantanamo, the indefensibility of the Batista regime, the popularity of Cubans in Africa (esp the Mandela ♥ Castro arc), the work of Cuban doctors all over the world, their laws and legislation, and how unanimous the world is against the US blockade of Cuba.

      If they acknowledge the truth about Cuba, then they implicitly acknowledge the US aggression; The US lies carried by Western Media; the US cruelty in its blockade. And if they acknowledge that the US are behaving unjustly against Cuba, and Cuba counts the other AES states as friends and allies? That’s the thread to pull.

      The trick is knowing when to stop pulling and trust that the lib/fence-sitter you’re talking to will start pulling of their own volition, because as much as everyone will insist “I’m not afraid to admit when I’m wrong,” that aphorism is bullshit. Especially when they were probably adamant and likely condescending about their initial position. People will admit they’re wrong to themselves, but are far too prideful to admit it to someone they’re arguing with. Especially if they’re from a liberal individualist culture. Especially if it’s about politics. And especially if they enjoy white privilege.

      And I also say Cuba is a ‘litmus test’ because if they dismiss the mountians of evidence about Cuba, if they dismiss the work of Cuba’s doctors, if they dismiss the fact that the entire Global South adores Cuba? Fuck’em. Your time and breath are too precious to waste on lost causes. The only hope for them is that their internalized and normalized racist arrogance gets ripped out of them when The West collapses under the weight of its own hubris, and they hopefully survive the process and find a way to heal.

  • QueerCommie
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    211 year ago

    If Chinese people are forced to support their government how did the 10% disagree?

    • SovereignState
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      101 year ago

      The 10% are party officials, uh, granted extra voting rights or something. And for some reason they disapprove of the government. Yeah.

      • QueerCommie
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        1 year ago

        I legit heard a Qanon adjacent lady say Xi’s in league with Biden and they’re cooperating to start a fake war while simultaneously other elites in the party are “whitehats” fighting for the American patriots or something. I don’t remember exactly but I don’t really care.

        • @Giyuu
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          41 year ago

          Let me guess the white hats are just coincidentally pointy

    • obviously they’ve been forced by the C2P to claim that they disagree as a 9D chess move to fool wholesome big-brained Westerners into believing that 90% of the people actually do support the Communist Authoritarian Regime Dictatorship

      • Zymefish🏳️‍⚧️☢️
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        41 year ago

        Yo Dawg I heard you disliked the seeseepee so we put a 90% agree inside your 10% disagree so you can agree with the seeseepee while you disagree with them.

    • @Aria
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      41 year ago

      10% hate the CPP so much that they’re willing to say it even if they get executed for it!

  • @v12riceburner
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    161 year ago

    One day there will be a cure for white supremacy.

    • @yearningforfreedom
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      151 year ago

      We need to synthesize whatever John Brown had in him besides that dawg

  • 小莱卡
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    151 year ago

    It’s not worth discussing something as stupid as that to a person that is as stupid to believe it.

    I’d rather reverse the question and tell them to consider if we are the ones being brainwashed.

  • @OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    In the case of China, all you have to do is talk to Chinese people and see they’re not different from anyone else. They have a wide range of opinions, but especially those who stay in China tend to see what the government is doing and are in favor of it.

    As someone living in SK, I can touch on the the case of North Korea a bit more. Defectors often admit two things: One, most people know when they’re being lied to, and two, the approval rate is still high in NK. Those things combined don’t exactly paint a picture of being brainwashed.

    Another interesting thing is unlike 30-40 years ago, North Koreans coming to SK remain liberal in their beliefs, a strong indicator that any new information largely aligns with what they knew back in the Juche state.

    • @fire86743OP
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      1 year ago

      most people know when they’re being lied to

      What about all the westerners who are fed anticommunist propaganda? They don’t believe they are being lied to. Not trying to say that the North Koreans are being fed lies, I’m trying to be in good faith.

      • QueerCommie
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        141 year ago

        Americans know they’re being lied to, they’re just not completely sure by whom. If you realize that the liberal media is lying to you you might look for more reactionary stuff as it seems like the only better option. Also, anti-communism is considered by many to be general knowledge similar to say “if you drop a penny from the Empire State Building it can kill someone.” Everyone thinks they know it but they don’t think about it too hard and (many) can be persuaded to the contrary with a certain amount of debunking.

        • @ihaveibs
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          111 year ago

          This is a great way to put it. Americans political beliefs really boil down to who they believe is lying to them.

        • JoeMarx 193
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          61 year ago

          Americans know they’re being lied to, they’re just not completely sure by whom.

          This

      • @knfrmity
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        121 year ago

        This essay digs into your question a bit more. I think it’s hard to say how many people see through the anti-communist propaganda, but whether they do or not doesn’t matter so much. What does matter is where they perceive their material interests to be. When people at least perceive themselves to be petit bourgeoisie if not higher, they are inclined to go along with whatever allows them to maintain or improve that class position the best.

      • @OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml
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        -11 year ago

        What about all the westerners who are fed anticommunist propaganda?

        The good news is you can estimate what portion of the population actually believes the anticommunist propaganda. In the US, I don’t personally know a single person who believes “communism is evil” and didn’t vote for Trump. In 2016, Trump only had 63 million votes - which puts the max number of people in the US who believe communism is evil at 20% (the actual number is probably less since other groups voted for Trump too).

        So tl;dr most Westerners who are fed anticommunity propaganda don’t believe it either

        • @CountryBreakfast
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          31 year ago

          They do belive it. They just know the presence of anti communist propaganda is cynical and oversaturated. They don’t want anti communism to get in the way of having a comfortable life, but to say they “don’t believe it” is a big stretch I think.

  • @lil_tank
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    101 year ago

    If it is possible to have that much people brainwashed and propagandized to that point, then there is no way to prove that westerners aren’t equally brainwashed by their system

  • @fire86743OP
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    81 year ago

    Bro the thing says there are 21 comments yet I actually look at the comments and that’s not the case. What the heck is going on?

  • JoeMarx 193
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    21 year ago

    Just ask someone who actually lives there, or better yet spend some time there yourself.

  • @AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    “Where did you learn that? How do you know what their situation is? Cause obviously you never went there, and if you did you probably stayed in a resort and barely interacted with any of the non-resort staff there, you have never LIVED there and actually experienced and interacted with their supposedly evil government. You have all your info about them from Western media right? So what makes you so sure YOU’RE not brainwashed?”