There’s a lot of confusion right now regarding the death toll on the stadium construction. Nevertheless the workers rights seem very dodgy to say the least and there is this anti-LGBTQ+ rights.
What are your takes on it? Is the West right in its outrage?
The workers rights situation is worse than dodgy. Basically workers from south asia (mainly) emigrate there in search of employment and they end up getting poor pay, working conditions and no rights or protection. There are legends that often their passports are confiscated so they cannot escape but I have never seen proof of this though it’s not unlikely.
The problem is that this has been happening for a long and will continue to but this has only become noteworthy because of the world cup. Screeching of the “civilized world” has been entirely pointless and hollow. Zero countries have boycotted the tournament. Western countries continue to prop up the reactionary ruling classes in middle eastern oil producing countries. No hint of “targeted sanctions” for “humam rights violations”. I guess this is much more acceptable than nationalising your oil industry in response to which western countries will ruthlessly starve your children.
I do think that Qatar should not hosting an international sporting event but how is it worse than the UK or the US hosting it.
I agree. It is a tragedy, but I wanted some input from here as people here often have great sources on heavy topics.
The reason I am asking this is because following the western narrative has taken me down the path of wrong conclusions virtually every time (Uyghurs, Arabian Spring, Afghanistan, communism etc).
Right now I plan to not watch the WC because of all the shit revolving it.
So far what I have come up with is that 6-7000 migrants have died in Qatar in ten years, but not all of them on world cup stadiums. That’s still a lot, of course. Far too high. But not just the WC.
So, while the numbers for the WC may not be that high, it’s still a shockingly high number of workers that died.
Where did that number come from?
It is quoted and the sources used are government data from Qatar itself and from the home countries of the workers, saying something like 5700 workers from 4 South Asian countries have died in the past ten years. 800 something workers have died according to Pakistani (?) data, not included in the number above. Their is no data on Kenyan and Philipino workers, who make up a large group as well.
What interesting is that 70-80% of the deaths are marked ‘natural cause’. Going from the numbers above, that would mean around 1600-2000 people didn’t die a natural death. That’s around 160 to 200 people a year. In comparison: when The Netherlands reached 20 construction worker deaths in one year, it was labeled a big concern.
It is probably safe to say conditions in Qatar are pretty bad. But are they as bad as the West says? After all, we need to question everything The West does.
How tf do they manage to do that Holy shit did they aim for maximum kills? anyhow these are true the lgbt stuff is true but prolly exaggerated, they’re not going to bust a hotel room because two homies were holding hands but it’s still shit and not safe for queer people. So yes, the Qatar cup is pretty bad, the west is amplifying it but in reality it doesn’t need amplification to be considered bad.
These stadiums are always built as mega gentrification projects and the other participants use slave and criminalized migrant laborers domestically. I feel like it’s just thinly veiled Islamophobia and malding that Qatar is moving closer to the SCO more than anything.
More than happy to sell them weapons and only call for Russian and Chinese expulsion from these types of events. It’s white man’s burden tier outrage.
There’s absolutely islamophobia involved in the reaction, and Qatar isn’t a western puppet, but still the points of lgbtq and migrant workers are something that can’t be ignored.
It is but the critic still seems valid. Regardless of the western agenda, a lot of people seem to have actually died in the country. That’s enough for me to no want to be involved with it.
I haven’t gone over the full list of criticisms against Qatar, but I can guaran-damn-tee that their criticism given vs criticism due ratio is far higher than any of the previous hosts.
If a nation’s ethical record was grounds to disqualify them from hosting, that would be awesome. Question is why start now? The compeition’s been running for nearly 100 years, and the first time ever that an Arab nation gets invited to host is when we all start growing a conscience?
And the non-ethics related issues? Even worse. Climate too hot?! The bar for appropriate climate set according to what’s comfortable for someone born and raised in ‘temperate’ lattitudes.
Smells like racism on all counts.
They spent so much money that they could cure cancer with for stadium for people to watch gladiators in it while screaming at each other when their team loses…
It’s also just peak Western slacktivism. They are all so mad, but a majority will still watch it. Some even say they will pirate it to own the Qataris. When I say I won’t watch it, people look at you as if you committed a murder.
How hard is it to just not watch the tournament and go on with your life?
It’s something so important in their lives for some reason, they only get to watch it one time in 4 years, so that’s maybe why they insist so much but I still don’t get it
I’m a football dan myself, I know how important the WC is for the sport. But if you can look over the things that happened in Qatar all because you want to look at people kicking a ball, you might need to check yourself.
The sport is becoming increasingly more disgusting.
It was literally built on slaves
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No one here cares about the anti LGBTQ+ stuff except LGBTQ+ people and the rare allies, some are talking about the abuse of workers (there’s a sizable amount of Egyptians working in Qatar in various sectors).
I’m not the biggest fan of football but I would watch some world cup matches in the past because my entire family does, especially the final. Idk if I will this time but I also don’t get the hypocrisy because I doubt people boycotted the 1994 tournament that was hosted in the USA.
I personally give zero shits about Qatar and kinda dislike them but that’s unrelated to the world cup stuff.
Is the West right in its outrage?
Broken clock is right twice a day. Even if libs are right about some stuff, I question their intentions when criticizing something.
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Same but mostly because i have zero interest in football. There is something very toxic and suspicious to me about the sports entertainment industry in general. It is reminiscent of Roman gladiator games to me and ultimately it mainly serves for corporations to capitalize on advertising and make a huge amount of money for a very small number of people, and i’m not talking about the athletes - they may be paid well but more often than not end up ruining their bodies in the process.
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Me neither
Putting poor people from poor countries in kafala debt bondage is a great example of how the semi periphery can exploit poorer countries. Many of these workers have no choice but to stay and work because they can’t go back home with all that debt, especially when their wages are still higher in Qatar than in Nepal or wherever, despite them being lied to about wages anyway.
And climate change making it hotter will kill construction workers. Especially when they are forced to live in squalor and are prone to illnesses and food poisoning.
A waste of resources and an example of imperialism
A friend of mine landed some extra tickets to the semis, and offered to have me tag along. I’ve been hesitant to agree because of these very concerns. I’ve always wanted to attend but it makes me uneasy to think about.
Personally I wouldn’t go but it’s up to you really. Bad things did happen it seems, but bad things happen in a lot of countries where I would go to. But I don’t think I could get myself over this.
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Yes honestly this is the main reason I’m still considering it, I’d never in a million years actually pay for and directly fund big sports, but an opportunity to watch for free in person is different.
my take is that Penaldo is going to get owned by his idol Bukayo Saka
Maybe a weird question, but would you feel better about watching it if it was a pirated stream?
I think everyone should absolutely pirate the world cup, and they should have pirated all previous world cups.
Not FIFA, nor any of the host countries deserve the money they make from what should belong to the public.
There’s talk on r/soccer about doing this. I get their points of not giving money to broadcasts and Qatar this way, I really do.
But for me, it would not make me feel better. I’m still watching a tournament build on horrific conditions. And I couldn’t cheer for my country in any way. ‘Yay, we won the Slave Cup!’ just doesn’t work for me.
It’s terrible, but I’ll probably still watch it, as my family is