Almost whole Kharkiv Oblast is lost because of ‘‘tactics’’ by whoever is in command, tactics of retreating over and over again, losing land, then taking it back, again losing it over and over and over again for months. Leaving civillians behind who will get slaughtered by nazis. Ukronazis almost entered LPR, Donetsk is still suffering after 8 years with no end in sight, they freerly bomb settlements and kill everyone who speaks Russian and what does Russia do?

SHOWING MERCY ON NAZIS, heal their soldiers when they capture them and then let them scot free after. Spare civil infrastructure and strategic locations, roads, everything important in Ukraine, sparing them over and over again while they are slaughtering people and want to kill every Russian and Russian ally on this planet!!! Instead of launching an offensive steamrolling the Ukrainian cities, bomb the shit out of their military and destroy every strategic location. What can other people who need protection from Russia expect after this? What can Abghazia and South Ossetia, Transnistria and others expect?

I don’t know what did I expect with bourgeoisie in power, without Red Army and without Zhukov or generals like him…

We must stick to China for protection against western hordes if the war breaks out as it seems…

What are your opinions on the state of war and how long will this last like this?

  • @KommandoGZD
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    2 years ago

    I think this was a terrible blow on a lot of levels and has greatly damaged Russia’s reputation among Russian-Ukrainians and possibly even within its own population. It’s also terrible for PR in general. That’s the biggest loss here though. Militarily I don’t think it’s that important and if it was I don’t see why they would’ve given that region up.

    One thing we all need to understand is, despite all the screeching and the fallout this has caused globally, it really doesn’t seem to be that big of a war. At least for Russia. We’re constantly lead to believe this is some WW2 style conflict with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of men clashing along a 1000km frontline. It just isn’t. I’ve suspected this for a while, but Kharkov has kinda proven it imo. Just skim through the footage we’ve gotten since like April. A blown up tank here, a platoon assaulting a trench there, the occasional lone fighter jet maybe. Not exactly WW2.

    Thing is, there were practically no Russian regular troops in Kharkov. Militia reserves and some police-like national guard units, about 2000 of them, was the entire garrison left there. Fuck all. Why is that? We don’t know, but a sizeable force used to be there that didn’t do much either. But it shows the rather low intensity and priority of that oblast. The Russians didn’t bother having it and Ukraine could only now capitalize on it.

    We also pretty much know there is next to no Russian regular mechanized infantry fighting in Donbass. The fighting there is done almost exclusively by the militias and Wagner with occasional Chechen support. Iirc some VDV units were active during the Popasna episode, but that’s about it. The only places that have had a solid presence of the RF throughout are Kherson and the broader south, but those have been pretty quite for months too (before the Kherson offensive). Mostly just positional artillery battles with smaller skirmishes from what we know. Really the last large battle for Russian regulars was Mariupol.

    To give some idea of the numbers: Reports were that RF massed 20k troops in Kherson prior to the Ukrainian offensive. Even if we generously extrapolate that number there’s no way even 100k Russian regulars are in Ukraine.

    We know that’s a fraction of Russia’s army, so what the fuck is going on? Idk and I’m done spectulating, because this war just doesn’t make sense and deceives on so many levels. But maybe we should go back to what Russia declared it wanted to do and disregard our own wishes and expectations and especially those of hysterics in the East and West. Russia said it launched this SMO to support the Donbass republics in their struggle against Ukraine and to destroy the Ukrainian military. It didn’t declare total war on Ukraine and it hasn’t acted like it is in a real war with Ukraine at any point - to the frustration of many. It didn’t declare an ambition to landlock Ukraine, to free all Russian speakers or to destroy Ukraine. It has explicitly refrained from extending the war to any part of Ukraine not immediately involved in the fighting (infrastructure, etc).

    Really, it’s just doing what it said it would do. And looking at the broader geopolitical and economic context, it seems quite happy to continue the way it’s been going. Time is mostly on its side and if it ever feels the need to ramp up the conflict it absolutely can. But why should it? It’s costly and the clock isn’t ticking for Russia anyway.

    • commet-alt-w
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      102 years ago

      yea, important to note that it’s not a formal war, i.e. no declaration of war, and the title /special operation/

      • @KommandoGZD
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        2 years ago

        Yup. Thing is, everyone - conditioned by Western euphemisms, lies and hypocrisy - just assumes this too has to be some cover, misnomer or whatever. Even the people “supporting” Russia are doing this. Just look at all the telegram channels, everyone’s really assuming Russia is fighting a full on war, but somehow paradoxically restricting itself. This contradiction between reality and what they assume to be reality then clashes violently as was the case multiple times already and now especially in Kharkov. Why the hell would they give up Kharkov, use so few men and not target critical infrastructure in a war? That doesn’t make sense.

        But what if Russia isn’t just calling it a SMO - what if it really is a special military operation to protect Donbass and demilitarize Ukraine?

        • @Angry_Fuck
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          42 years ago

          I do believe your analysis is correct. It isn’t a full out war, 'cause if it was, really, shit should’ve hit the fan a few months ago.

          I do, though, believe that in almost every way, Russia is in a better position than anything the imperialist core can cook:

          • They are sitting in one of the world’s biggest gas reserves, with some “moral higher ground” bullshit foot-gun sanction logic from Europe, with China and Turkey taking gas a dime a dozen cubic meters;
          • The NATO countries aren’t willing to help Kiev with winter gear for the coming months, not even sparing a thousand tents;
          • Started a process of de-dollarization, if not for the world, for India and other China neighboring countries. This starts to show the cracks in the imperialist core;
          • They got some of the most coveted weapons from NATO for free, getting intelligence from then, while saving some of the most crucial military equipment protected, such as radars, those fancy planes and the like. They even start showing those new bombs, like that hypersonic missile;
          • Russia did secure, finally, Crimea in a decisive manner, and the other oblasts too. Not only a victory for their people, but the chernozion soil around the region is prime realstate;
          • With the amount of money Europe, the UK and the US of A lent to Ukraine, they’d be lucky if Zelensky pays up a tenth of the original sum in the next decade, with a huge default risk;

          So, I do believe that we have two scenarios:

          1. Russia leans on General Winter and just starts taking more ground, while morale is low, money and fuel is short and Kiev is unable to repair any infrastructure in a timely manner;
          2. Russia just takes whatever they already got. The campaign is deemed a success, no armistice is signed since anything from Kiev is just a fever dream and it stays like Crimea in 2014.

          Again, Putin is not an ally of the proletariat in any way, shape or form, and saying so is either opportunistic or naïve. What he is doing is protecting the Russian bourgeoisie’s interests first. This does, however, help to some extent the return to a multipolar world, making the imperialist nations squabble.

        • commet-alt-w
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          42 years ago

          I am too poor for telegram ;__;, maybe that’s for the best tho.

          you are right to point out all the hysteria. it is a contradiction. doesn’t help that western neoliberal media feeds and manufactures it with blatant propaganda and lies

          as for your last point, isn’t that exactly what putin said? plus making sure that the west can’t point nukes at russia from crimea seems pertinent after russia was not allowed entry into the eu, and the minsk accords were torn up

    • JucheBot1988
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      62 years ago

      What is the situation in Syria like? It’s possible they may consider that the more important front in the war against US imperialism, and are diverting more resources there.

      • @KommandoGZD
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        That’s a good point and definitely plays a role. I’ve not followed Syria too closely in the past months, but afaik it’s looking like it’s entering something like an end-stage (ignoring the Yankee elephant in the room) with Syria and Turkey rekindling relations recently.

        Azerbaijan-Armenia is another conflict that could draw in Russian troops at any moment, Georgia still isn’t exactly a friend of Russia either. Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan had skirmishes a day or two ago too. They can’t just chug their entire army into Ukraine and leave all that exposed.

        In general, to me at least, it seems like the larger geopolitical and economic situation is more important to the Russian leadership than the fighting on the ground. They’re battling NATO globally, not just in Donbass. The main ‘battle’ atm probably isn’t Kharkov or Bakhmut, but Samarkand.

        • @holdengreen
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          52 years ago

          how do you follow Syria? I don’t have those channels.

  • DankZedong A
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    2 years ago

    I think we need to ask ourselves what Russia’s goals is in this. As far as I understood, from the start of the war, is that it wants to secure Lugansk and Donetsk. As far as I can tell right now, they are still in Russian control. If this was the end goal of Russia, them losing Kharkiv and other areas they rolled into is not important to the people in charge. Securing and protecting Lugansk and Donetsk will be. It will be interesting to see what happens when Ukraine continues their offensive into these territories then.

    If this is not their goal, then yes, they do need to step up their game and launch a counter offensive of some sort. But I think the things I mentioned above are their goal. You don’t rapidly advance at first only to fall back and then just start doing… nothing? Or the people in charge have an even more elaborate plan in mind that is not yet taking place.

    Also, keep in mind that every single Ukrainian victory gets highlighted in Western oriented media. Russia still controls the vast majority of Eastern Ukraine from Lugansk to Crimea. Propaganda is part of warfare.

    • @Kirbywithwhip1987OP
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      122 years ago

      Lugansk is liberated, but Donetsk isn’t, if that’s the end goal, it’s still not achieved.

      • DankZedong A
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        192 years ago

        Yeah good point. I’m in no way an expert so that was just my two cents.

        It’s pretty hard to follow Russian news as a Westerner because we impose censorship to control the narrative want to block the evil Ruskie news!

  • @EuthanatosMurderhobo
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    2 years ago

    I agree with the “too much mercy” bit, and relate to the mood, but now is the worst time for conclusions. Fighting is hot again, it’s uncertain wtf is going on, MoD shows some signs of waking up (that TPS a couple days ago, a dam today), pulled out from Kharkov region, but Ukrainians have no successes in Kherson region. I don’t think fog of war has been foggier in Ukraine since 2014-15.

    As for leaving people and what did you expect from a bourgeois government…fucking tell me about it. I suspect that having certain mental issues is a lot like being a Russian commie - I’m torn between shitting on the government for dragging this at civilians’ detriment and think of how dragging this can be good for establishing multipolarity in the world these last few days.

    Ultimately, I support this government, cringing as I do, because

    We must stick to China for protection against western hordes

    is wishful thinking (also, because the left movement in Russia is a shitshow right now and the best an overturn can do for foreseeable future is install a nazbol government). China’s foreign policy is remarkably passive and the worst news is that it doesn’t have nuclear parity with the US yet, so, if Russia is boned, we have 'merikkka with the biggest nuclear stick around and we know for a fact they won’t stop at using it, if no one can retaliate, let alone at using it to apply political pressure.

  • Kaffe
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    2 years ago

    Potentially Ninja Edit: Russia’s military is actually battle hardened. The things they’ve learned in Syria are applicable in this conflict. Syria is standing today because of Russia, this conflict is a little bit easier because Russia can more readily absorb civilian populations and protect them.

    Every push into enemy territory means a further, harder retreat. The Ukrainians may very well be overextending themselves. We’ve seen that the Russians have a methodical approach to taking territory, the UA relies on overwhelming strength in an area. Having the northern flank cut off and surrounded by UA would be a huge disaster, since many of those soldiers would be LPR citizens. The closer UA pushes to the border, the more dangerous the threat from the Russian skies are, and we know that Russia is using significantly less bombs and missiles than the US had used against Iraq (the last comparable conflict between modern militaries).

    The “tactics” which you take issue with are working, because Ukraine spends more resources per kilometer of land taken than Russia does.

    Ukraine has made it clear that they are not in any way interested in surrendering, so it would be a waste for Russia to chase them around the prairies. The best way to win the war is to exhaust Ukraine, which opens the discussion to that of imperialism.

    The West is replenishing the wasteful UA military. There’s an issue though, Western arms manufacturing in Europe relies on energy from Russia (lol). In tandem with the general energy crisis, Western defense production is now competing with civilian manufacturing and consumers, reinforcing an energy crisis across the West. Interestingly, the two groups who are actually gaining from this situation are the American and Russian gas producers, (there may be Russian bourgeois interest in extending this conflict, but that interest is shared with those wanting to overextend Western imperialism). Ukraine has become a blackhole of resources and one path to Russian victory is maintaining their low energy effort and the high Ukrainian effort as the longer UA holds out, the worse the blowback is for Europe as a whole. The long term process at stake here, the gamble the US has made, is the integration of Europe and the rest of Asia. The US hopes that this conflict gives them at least a century of a buffer before a Socialist Republic of China emerges as an alternative to global Capitalism, and European and Asian integration would be the economically obvious direction. We have to remember that this conflict has nothing to do with Ukraine, or putting missiles in Ukraine as a member of NATO, it is about creating a rift between Russia and the rest of Europe, and to keep the Eurasian continent from achieving economic integration. The US will continue to provoke conflict in the Eurasian continent to keep these countries on opposing sides of the barrel. Having Iran and Iraq fighting is good for the US. Having China preoccupied with Islamists is good for the US. Scaring Germany and Japan into remilitarizing is good for the US. Having Azerbaijan turn the attention of Russia and Iran is good for the US. Every conflict in Eurasia is a good opportunity in the eyes of the Beast.

    The elephant in my comment is the Ukrainian civilians, particularly those of the “third sort” as accused by the Ukrainian fascists. Russia has to make tough decisions, they’ve chosen to withdraw in the north and take as many civilians with them as possible. Partially, this is what the nazis want, for the Russian speakers to leave the country and to expropriate their lands, but it is better for them to be alive so they can return when the nazi filth is mopped up.

    I know that on a human level, we are distraught at the scene in Kharkiv, it’s a blow to our humanity. We feel these emotions because we care. The Ukronazis haven’t gotten away with it yet, there’s still a universe where they will be punished.

  • ☭CommieWolf☆
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    192 years ago

    Well, sorry to say but China isn’t saving anyone anytime soon, it goes against their prevailing policy of non-interference when it comes to such things. But should the west threaten China itself, that’s a different story.

      • ☭CommieWolf☆
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        2 years ago

        Indeed, and it seems that China has an insane amount of tolerance and level headedness for dealing with these provocations. The Pelosi visit showed us how much they were willing to let happen in order to prevent an apocalypse. I just hope that this doesn’t embolden the US to do something unhinged out of confidence.

        • JucheBot1988
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          Re the handling of Pelosi’s visit: there’s a more subtle message here, which is that China simply doesn’t consider the US a major existential threat. And really, why should they? They know, and Washington knows, that China can sink the American economy tomorrow. War is probably the only method that America has left to destabilize and destroy China, and the Communist Party is not falling for it.

          The threats were aimed more at Taiwan. Prior to 2014, the KMT government was actually pursuing – in defiance of Washington – greater economic integration with the mainland. So naturally, a totally organic, not in the least US-backed series of protests called the Sunflower Movement ended up ousting the KMT and propelling the DPP into power. (The DPP had until then been a fairly marginal party). Now under the DPP’s watch, the Taiwanese economy has not been doing particularly well, and the DPP is afraid of losing supporters; and the way they stay relevant is by provoking confrontation with China, thus getting in the world news and making it seem as though Taiwan is now a major power-broker in international affairs. Pelosi’s visit, which could never have happened without the permission of Taiwan’s senior leadership, was part of this strategy. The military drills that followed the visit – they were described by our friends on r/sino as “Taiwan getting violated, like, super SUPER violated” – were China’s response to the DPP government. They were meant to signal that there will always be consequences, and that Taiwan cannot provoke China and cross Beijing’s red lines with impunity.

          • @holdengreen
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            2 years ago

            I swear the shipping estimate on my LCSC shopping cart just went up from like $8 to $25. f*ck Edit: maybe cuz I added all those heavy potentiometers to my cart. I can get those on aliexpress probably.

  • @GloriousDoubleK
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    182 years ago

    We dont know what Russia knows. We are used to western style foghtinf where cities are reduced to rubble and then folks are sent in to mop up the mess.

    This war is far from over.

  • @PolandIsAStateOfMind
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    162 years ago

    We must stick to China for protection against western hordes if the war breaks out as it seems…

    Not want to break your hope, but i wouldn’t count on China for any foreign intervention. They are very careful and pragmatic even in economic moves, not to mention diplomatic ones and military is probably completely impossible unless they are straight up attacked.

    • @aworldtowin@lemmy.ml
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      152 years ago

      This is exactly why the US press spends so much time on Taiwan. The only way to provoke China (as of today) is to get something going in their own territory. Obviously Tibetans don’t want a return to serfdom so Tibet is a no go. Millions dumped into Hong Kong but that failed spectacularly.

  • Free PalestineA
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    92 years ago

    The word around the grapevine is that Russia pulled back to lul Ukraine into extending its forces into territory that Russia knows it can easily retake, to grind Ukraine’s forces down and break morale. With the Donbas and Luhansk regions nearly fully liberated, all Russia really needs now is to force Ukraine to surrender. It doesn’t make sense for them to commit to trying to take the whole country, so it’s smarter for them to utilize tactics to break the resolve of the Ukrainian leadership. By pulling out of the region, they force Ukraine’s forces to spread thinner to retake territory. Once they are thinned, it’s easier to shell their positions and force the soldiers to lose hope. Turning what looks like a victory into an obvious defeat works wonders for crippling your enemy, and I think that’s what Russia is doing.

    Hopefully by showing Ukraine that it can’t hold territory, destroying their power plants and their logistical hubs, etc. Ukraine’s leadership will finally acknowledge that they can’t win, and surrender. And hopefully that happens fast, shit’s poppin’ off in the Caucasus.

    Though, I’m not an expert and none of us are privy to Russia’s classified documentation. So none of us can say anything for sure. The one big thing to bear in mind is Russia has one of the most modernized militaries on earth rn, with some of the brightest tactical minds. They very likely know what they’re doing, and if you’re hoping they’ll win this war, you might as well trust that their choice to pull out will pay off.

    • JucheBot1988
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      62 years ago

      Kiev essentially blew all its resources on this “victory.” So when Russia comes back and hits them in force, they’re basically screwed.

      We should bear in mind that the Ukrops spent eight years digging in. Good entrenchments and bunker systems are difficult to take out – in the 80s, NATO doctrine actually mandated the use of tactical nuclear weapons to break up an entrenched enemy, civilians be damned – so it’s good to get the enemy spread as thin as possible.

  • RedFortress
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    2 years ago

    There isn’t a single moment when Russia wasn’t in combat readiness ever since the end of WW2. The Nazi invasion has left them dead bent on securing their Western border.

    I’m sure they know what they’re doing, this is the country that crossed half of Europe after all.

  • @whoami
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    72 years ago

    Any military conflict has back and forth, it’s not just one side steamrolling to victory.

  • Catradora-Stalinism☭M
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    72 years ago

    Russia is unreliable currently, although interests align

    for the moment

    Although their tactics make an amount of sense. Destruction has casualties, mostly on the civilian side, and that is the worst thing you can get in a war. But as you highlight, it seems the Russians are being far too soft.