The drama around the new movie and the lead being Black and how crackers are crying over it has convinced me that rhe dissolution of white America, and all manner of Indigenous and Black and marginalized nationalisms are legitimate.
Reparations are legitimate. Black and Indigenous independent capital are legitimate. Black and Indigenous socialism is legitimate. Land Back is legitimate. Total defeat of white armies is legitimate. Expulsion of white people back to Europe and being excommunicated from the western hemisphere is legitimate.
The only thing whiteness understands is conflict and domination. whites deserve ZERO ACCESS to any form of land or resource or labor that involves any Indigenous or nonwhite effort.
I dont think anyone can convince me that white people want peace. The abused should be able to evict their abusers.
I cant stand it. whiteness is just insanity. Antisocial, desperately hateful madness. Its only defining characteristics is just what it supposedly isnt and what it is opposed to. A means of defining an enemy. That is all whiteness is. A retreat from humanity and a search for an enemy. Because if it didnt have an adversary, whiteness would have no concrete meaning.
If ANY self determination movement or anticolonial movenent has the ability to expel their exploiters and colonizers, not only should they, but they are obliged. And no. white people dont get a chance to understand it if and when it happens.
Being proud of whiteness is a disease but there are many white comrades in the world. The disease of whiteness has to be eliminated but I sincerely hope I don’t ever get targeted because I’m white lol. Nor do I think we should focus on segregating whites and non whites (or maybe Inunderstand your post wrong).
Rather, focus on why whites are this way. Centuries of imperialism, colonialism and capitalism have lead to this situation. We should destroy that and focus in repairing the damages that have been done.
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The Contradiction is that White people have created a settler state to dominate indigenous, Black, and Latino groups. Through this state they protect their stolen wealth and power, it has gone on for so long that it feels natural even to the oppressed.
The solution to the contradiction is to destroy the settler state, and create a new state with plurinational guarantees. Codify the outlaw of racism, with a proper definition of racism. Strip the wealth from the settlers and give it to the national states, socialize resources, and build socialism.
We can see that racism is international. White powers have protected the settlers in South Africa from returning power in the form of property to the black South Africans. America is the most powerful settler state, so its destruction is necessary to end White Supremacy.
Well yes that is what I meant
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But what does he mean by this?
Just basically national sovereignty, right? All nations should have the right to sovereignty, not just the white nation. In practice within the US, this would probably mean balkanization and federation. Land Back and New Afrika are the single most important issues to support within the US, imo. The capitalism within this country is founded not on imperialism outside of itself, but on internal colonization of the Black and Indigenous nations. Undo that internal colonization, and the empire will crumble.
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Understandable but since English isn’t my first language I usually just use the first word that comes to mind
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Yes. That is what I meant. Self determination up to EVERY implication that the colonized may feel is necessary in that context.
I am white; btw. So in bad faith, one can argue that im talking about segregation.
But that’s a bad faith read. When I meant self determination; I sincerely mean Black and Indigenous power up to and including expelling whites or anyone or any institution they feel is a hinderance to their self determination and sovereignty. They have the RIGHT to reparations, they have the RIGHT to have physical distance from their abusers, and they have the RIGHT to disassociate with their colonizers. Im serious. Whatever they feel is necessary for their peace and safety and development.
If that means expulsion and physical borders that whites cant cross, fair. If that means denial of goods, services, and resources to whites; fair.
Decolonization has no bearing on what we poor working whites think it should play out. Is it really decolonization if we get a say in how to dull the sting of justice and reparations?
I have no illusions. If decolonization was to happen, people like me will feel it in our bones. We will feel it IN OUR SLEEP. But if their national security means folks like me need to be excluded from the matters of law and rights and sovereignty and consitutions; so be it.
And Ive felt this way for years. But this… petty low rent “antiwoke” complaining and hysterics over a Black mermaid or some pissy attitude towards “diversity” in things as simple and mundane as a movie or a fucking comic book? You wanna argue that this is corporate astroturfing to “divide and conquer” the working class… Fine. Say that. But it worked and if it worked; someone was to blame and no… It aint the elites that are to blame. Poor whites fall for this shit and THAT’S the problem.
I don’t think I understand your last part. Wouldn’t this just mean that white people are now on the receiving end of things or am I reading it wrong?
Also, I’m not arguing in bad faith but I sometimes do not completely understand the goals of decolonization I think.
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The leveling force is Socialism. It is the guarantees of a decent living, it is the process for the abolition of class, race, and sexual disparities. White Supremacy is enforced through the gatekeeping of wealth and resources (as is patriarchy), if we take away that ability, Whiteness collapses. Whiteness will then only be a construct of individual bigotry, which erodes itself when confronted with reality. We need to target the key processes that allow the social reproduction of White Supremacy, Patriarchy, and Capitalism as a whole.
This is my main thing. Socialism should dissolve all these contradictions that exist right now, right? Or am I seeing this too simplistic?
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Im gonna be real with ya. I dont think it’s up there with doing an uno reverse card on colonialism and putting white people in chains.
From my read of it; there is a demand for colonizers to STOP and surrender the plunder and loot. It says a lot about being white if we imagine that WE die if we stop being colonizers.
Ive heard of ideas such as white people surrendering and throwing their efforts in for a Black power cause. I imagine in return; these revolutionary whites may get an invitation to live under the new Indigenous or Black state.
Regardless. We are going to die. What difference does it make for us if we die by neolibs, climate change, fascists, or revolution?
Aint none of us getting out of this world alive.
Because you make it sound like white people dying in every situation lol. If I think about a fairer world in no scenario would I die or be enslaved or whatever, but your comments make it seem that that’s what I should be prepared for or something, and that I have no say in that whatsoever. I can follow you up until the point where I supposedly die. Why do I or any white person have to die in this scenario?
Edit: let me elaborate on my confusion. You make it sound like in order for the oppressed to get full and just freedom they somehow have to get revenge on the white people. Maybe I understand it wrong. But this is how that sounds. Please also not see this as a bad faith argument. I sincerely want to see where you are coming from.
Im not suggesting that white people MUST die. Im just trying to get that part out of the way BECAUSE that worry SHOULD NOT be the reason decolonization doesnt happen.
The chances if youre white you get killed by a reactionary settler is much higher than by some based revolutionary that takes you out in friendly fire.
But still. We should be willing to be disciplined and TOLD WHAT TO DO 🤷♀️ as a minimum.
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I mean even the very fact that anyone has issues in this or that way with the movies is very telling that the racial issue in USA is a gordian knot.
Chinese movies are full of Chinese people. Polish are full of Poles. Nobody complains there are Indians in Bollywood movies. Another huge movie producer, Nigeria, had movies full of Nigerians. And so on and on and on. It’s only in Murica that there are constant tiring shitfest over this.
Bloody fuckers should touch some grass.
Its disgusting that there’s a constant framing of “American” as meaning white, as if whiteness is the default in America and everything else is an oddity. I remember seeing speeches around the BLM protest from GOP ghouls saying that “As Americans we should strive to treat our black neighbors fairly.”.
Are they implying that the black neighbors are somehow not American?
Are they implying that the black neighbors are somehow not American?
As i see this, it’s exactly what they mean. Second, third and so on class citizens, etc. Just an usual fash mindset.
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No. They dont even do that. They whine and cry that a fucking fairy tale character is Black for ONCE. These people are upset that some people hired a Black actor for a Disney movie at all!
I believe Bobby was talking about the intention of the higher ups responsible for the film, not the Anglo outrage from the public, but both are despicable nonetheless.
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W H A T. First time hearing about this. So It’s another: woman, minorities, other races and LGBT bad in movies why no white protagonist?
Yes.
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This is a good a place as any to ask the thing I’ve always been super confused on. Does landback mean the people descended from the settlers (even if they were born there) physically need to go? If not, what does it actually entail being done?
In a country like Canada, where indigenous populations account for only 1% of the total population and white people are the majority, even assuming we got it so that all the people had 100% equal representation in a council socialist government (which, the current imperialist one isn’t even close being equal), the indigenous people would still lose out because they’re only a tiny minority. So what should be done about that? Should the legal system be set up so that indigenous populations always have priority in governance no matter what? Wouldn’t lead to massive conflicts and animosity between indugenous and non indigenius people and be massively unstable? Should non-Indigenous people de displaced instead?
My family immigrated to Canada from China when I was a kid, am now a Canadian citizen, and I constantly wonder if we even have any right to stay here because it’s the colonial government that allowed all that and not the indigenous peoples, and we’re currently better off than the median for indigenous people here. So we’re technically settlers. If the answer is no we shouldn’t be here, then I would think my only moral choice is to leave in the name of decolonisation.
Anyone can fill me in or give me some reading materials, ideally by actual indigenous people?
i still have a lot to learn about this, but here’s a great talk about the distinction between land and territory in an indigenous understanding. basically, territory is lines drawn on a map, but land specifically refers to the relationship between a people and the place that they inhabit, with an explicit understanding that their culture and who they are are directly affected by their relationship with the land. this tracks pretty well with marxism and a marxist understanding of history, tbh. i’m sure there’s more or better resources, like the red nation, but that’s all i have to share with you atm
I asked SilverSpook and David Sugar, an indigenous Hawaiian and a Cherokee respectively.
https://mastodon.social/@AgreeableLandscape/108995126444635334
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i just want to add that the way that whiteness defines itself is by what it isn’t and what it is opposed to, but i recommend defining whiteness by what it is: a class (most) privileged by settler-colonialism and imperialism.
race is a social construct or product of society, yes, but saying that race is biological differences is agreeing with a basic premise of white nationalists and supremacists. race is the phenomenon of social classes divided by settler-colonialism and imperialism. pasty-skinned irish people not being included into whiteness for centuries (and arguably up to now) shows how the biological essentialism of race is false.
this unveils race science and white nationalists/supremacists for what they truly are and what they truly call for, without agreeing to their terms. it also demonstrates how white nationalism is either dead on arrival or fundamentally lying: whiteness has always relied on subjugation of others, and so a “white nation” with no international or national subjugation is by definition impossible.
So basically, whiteness is an ideology that’s different from being a “white” ethnicity? I’ve always been confused on the difference between whiteness and white people or whatever.
yeah, i think that’s mostly right. “white” ethnicity is basically just european ethnicity within a settler-colonial context, but then for those who are separated from their european heritage through generations of settler-colonialism then “whiteness” becomes white peoples’ identification and self-identified ethnicity. this is why things like “nerd” culture are so often identified with whiteness, because they essentially serve as a shared mythology and perceived ethnicity that can replace a loss of european roots.
after all, why are black people african-american, but white people are never referred to as european-american? if there had never been european colonialism, none of the different ethnicities in europe would be grouped up and defined as “white” they would just be what they are: poles, czechs, russians, french, germans, etc.
i’m not like some expert or something, but while ethnicity and race are both products of time, race is a division of people into classes based on extraterritorial subjugation, whereas ethnicity is simply shared culture and how living in certain conditions and in certain places can affect a group of people in the same way over long amounts of time.
Facts
I made an effortpost about this a while ago if you like history and being mad
Ooh absolutely. I am sure that there was a huge corporate astroturfing of Gamergate.
Grand domination isnt enough for whiteness. They even gotta dig on either explicitly or lead by the nose or just an aspect of white rabble the reaction to petty CRUMBS of consumer culture where anyone but a cishet white person is presented.
And if we wanna argue that Gamergate was influenced by corporate advertising shenanigans; then the damable thing about it was that it was successful AT ALL. The issue is that. That it worked. Which tells me that the low ranking whites are just WAITING and LOOKING for an excuse. Poor whites are NOT victims of manipulation. They’re a reserve reactionary army waiting for their orders.
