Is Bay Area415's Uyghur debunk video saved somewhere?

Please help me find it.

Edit: Found the video, but let’s use this thread to compile his other videos.

LunaticHacker
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Don’t. Didn’t he delete them for privacy reasons?

Makan
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Wait.

@XiangMai
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Least favourite person in the world

Imagine going on youtube looking like a fucking terrorist and calling yourself a communist because of such petit-bourgeois fear of “muh corporate job!”

The amount of damage this guy did is phenomenal. Every single person that agreed with him was already an ML and everyone else, if they didn’t already, now associated communism with fucking terrorists

@BlackLotus@lemmy.ml
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now associated communism with fucking terrorists

What planet do you live on? Virtually everyone who is not a communist already associates us with terrorists. Until we begin to consistently meet people’s material needs, that is not going to change.

The dude was protecting his identity, and I applaud him for his virtually entirely positive contributions to our movement.

@XiangMai
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What planet do you live on? Virtually everyone who is not a communist already associates us with terrorists. Until we begin to consistently meet people’s material needs, that is not going to change.

Literally not true. I learned this the very first day I was out leafletting and chatting to people and an old lady approvingly said “it’s good to see communists out again”.

The dude was protecting his identity, and

Why even do youtube videos though. He’s a lawyer. He’s an intelligent person. He knew he’d get doxxed eventually anyway. There’s programs that can reverse engineer his darthvader voice thing he was using in seconds (obtaining his real voice). He must’ve known this. If he really wanted to hide his identity why even come out on camera?

The answer is: ego.

He got doxxed eventually and it was all the more funny that he was a lawyer evicting families and businesses from their homes

for his virtually entirely positive contributions to our movement.

Yes the positive contributions being telling proles that “markets actually are the proles friends”, that China has perfected Marxism and that actually being a communist is dressing like a terrorist because building a revolutionary movement isn’t painstaking community work but setting up a protracted peoples war on an American highway.

I applaud him for his virtually entirely positive contributions to our movement.

He suppressed communist parties on the subs he mods who don’t toll the IdPol line as well as other communists like Maupin and InfraRed.

And whilst those 2 are dengoids also: at least they’re far more intelligent than he was, look like respectable normal people instead of terrorists and those 2 don’t go around wrecking communist parties and deplatforming communists doing actual decent work.

@CriticalResist8
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In what world does Haz look like a respectable normal person lmao

Also did he not go around “deplatforming communists doing actual decent work” when he literally came out of his orientalist monologue against Luna saying “all of you defending luna will come begging for forgiveness and I will not give any”? Would rather appeal to the far-right than other communists, where have I seen that before? 🤔

But I suspect from your usage of the word “dengoid” (do I have to point out the racist roots?) that you’re not doing this in good faith.

@XiangMai
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But I suspect from your usage of the word “dengoid” (do I have to point out the racist roots?) that you’re not doing this in good faith.

Shouldve looked at my name before pulling that card. This is why most of the US hates western leftists. It’s disingenuous and conniving behaviour.

“all of you defending luna will come begging for forgiveness and I will not give any”?

I literally have no idea what this is referring to. I’ve seen some videos of Haz but I don’t particularly care for youtube culture nor do I want to be involved in the soap operas of it. I would have to know the context in which this was said.

Would rather appeal to the far-right than other communists, where have I seen that before? 🤔

You just straight up ignored the fact he suppressed and deplatformed other communists of subs he modded. Haz says he wants to appeal to far rightoids. Who cares? Haz wasn’t stopping BayArea from having any mention of his name enter his sub or trying to cancel him.

To be fair though I have no idea who bayarea was appealing to besides Sakai’ists. His own ego and patreon account I imagine…

I’ve no idea to make this judgement (RE: appealing to far right or the “left” in USA as I’m not from there) but I know I would rather appeal to far right than most of the Left and even those who call themselves communist in my country. Far right usually have just gone down conspiracy culture. Linking that to capital and capitalists is not very hard.

I will tell you now though I prefer appealing to far right over a corporate lawyer and Sakai’ist that claimed he was “POC” and “Latin” whilst not even speaking Spanish

Also it is my firm belief that the rightists will balkanise USA in the next ten years. There is a good chance the rightists and trump supporters (that will balkanise the USA) can switch sides during that time and make the impending revolution/balkanisation a socialist one.

The current US left is not capable of anything. (Just my opinion but I can see why he would appeal to rightoids)

@CriticalResist8
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Am I correct then in assuming you are of Chinese origins but don’t support the direction the CPC has been heading towards after Deng?

@XiangMai
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Yes

How could anyone support Deng with a straight face?

Deng was responsible for repressing Jiang Qing and her 3 closest comrades then waged a relentless propaganda campaign against them. Even broadcasting their trial on live TV!

The only good thing Deng did was roll tanks over the counter-revolutionaries at Tienanmen.

But even on that point, Jiang Qing was correct in asserting “Deng Xiaoping let in all those Westerns ideas”.

don’t support the direction the CPC has been heading towards after Deng?

Dengoids like to pretend that Deng was playing 5d chess and was upholding socialism.

All he did was align China with the USA against the Soviet Union and force the Chinese people into embittered wage slavery in the service of Western multinational corporations.

Corruption was so bad before Xi Jinping came to power that you could kill a person in China and get off scot free for $5000. That was the wonderful paradise Deng created the price of murder dictated by the “socialist market” being $5000

**That being said **I fully support Chinas rise whether Socialist or capitalist at this juncture in history. But if Deng had not defeated then propagandised against the MLs in CPC - Chinas development would’ve been more balanced and the West would never have entered into their “end of history” phase. Instead they would be wracked with social upheaval at not being able to access cheap Chinese goods to offset declining living standards, China wouldn’t have become so polluted and it’s overall economic development would’ve been better.

Full opinion is in this book. I am currently scanning it so might be able to link a pdf

@CriticalResist8
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Thanks for the exhaustive & comprehensive answer.

Dengoid has racist roots in that it’s the same ending as words such as Caucasoid, Mongoloid or N*groid. Used to denote a very neutral “relating to a group of people formerly considered to constitute a race of humans having X ancestry and classified according to physical traits” but it’s really just white supremacist 19th century “science”.

Regardless I don’t see the point of inviting discord between communists, MLs especially, when we should be promoting understanding and coexistence. Dengoid remains an insult and will just shut people off.

This is my gripe with people like Haz, incidentally, and the whole breadtube crowd. The overconfident type, the never-can-be-proven-wrong, because they’re sure they’ve read everything and that they understand all this knowledge better than others, as if we haven’t all been there. This was his response to his one-sided fight with Luna: https://showinfrared.substack.com/p/exposing-the-fraud-that-is-luna-oi?justPublished=true, I only read the preface because, wow, imagine writing a book over a twitter fight that lasted one evening. But he’s made his allegiance clear. His brand of “patriotic socialism” that Maupin also espouses (who met with the founder of nazbol ideology several times) appeals to the far-right, compromising the essence of marxism to placate fascists but here he made it clear he has no compassion at all for communists who don’t follow him as, in his opinion, they are not actual communists.

@XiangMai
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Com, if you only read the preface of that you should read the entire thing.

Haz (his Dengism not withstanding), displays why he’s a far superior communist to the ultra lefts afraid of appropriating American patriotism and American symbols.

Here is what separates idealism from materialism: The idealists believe that American imperialist ideology has its basis in ideas about America, in flags and in patriotism, rather than material, and therefore unconscious structures which elevate the American subject to the universal status. It is of no consequence whether that standard disguises itself in the form of ‘anti-imperialism’, ‘leftism’ or even ‘Communism’ - the content of the standard is by nature imperialist. It implies a universal state apparatus to interpellate such a ‘universal subject. Here lies the essence of American unipolarity. The American ‘Marxist-Leninists’ have merely replaced American universal human rights, slogans of ‘democracy’ and ‘economic liberty’ with the disguise of Marxism-Leninism.

American universalism is nothing more than the highest stage of Anglo-Saxon idealism, according to the particular arises out of a fixed universal premise. Shoot the arrow, then find the target. Marxist humanist universalism, best epitomized today by Xi Jinping Thought, in contrast to Americanism, recognizes the universal realities of mankind to arise out of and through the wealth of differing concrete and particular realities - which do not follow under a common prescription, standard or discourse.

The unity of mankind does not follow from the prescription of some supposedly universal form of this unity upon it, but from a concrete unity forged on the basis of mutual respect, determinate association and withdrawing all claims to any pretense of knowledge of the other’s essence. What is truly in common, then, may arise authentically and on the basis of authentic mutual recognition.

American leftists cannot make, as an excuse for their own petty bourgeois antisocial paratism and inability to lead the American masses. the anti-American sentiment that prevails among global forces of anti-imperialism or marginalized ethnic minorities within America. These forces, many of whom even taken the American war of independence as an inspiration of their struggle, have every right to be anti-Americans insofar as the official representatives of America engage in ceaseless acts of aggression against them. They can in no way be faulted for their anti-Americanism. But American leftists, and white leftists in particular, possess no right to be anti-Americans, and can be criticized for their anti-Americanism, since it is a form of refusing their own responsibility.

They uniquely possess the duty to seize hegemony over their country, to be even more authentic American patriots than the imperialist deep state and ruling class - since American politics is precisely their problem. The nature of the American government is not the problem of anti-imperialists, defending their homelands against American aggression is. They have their own governments, their own countries and their own homelands to worry about - America has imposed its significance only isnofar as it has engaged in aggression against them.

But American leftists cannot abdicate and surrender their responsibility for the foreign policies of their own country: It is their patriotic duty to take responsibility for the actions of their own country, and seek an end to American unipolarity, imperialist aggression and do right by victims of American imperialism. This requires an ideological revolution on the part of Americans, from unipolar American universalism to a Marxism-Leninism fit for the age of multi-polarity, where they apply the universal truths of Marxism-Leninism to the particular context of the United States, and cease to act as though the latter context is itself some universal site of prescriptive truth.

It appears contradictory only to those who lack any semblance of dialectic thinking that American Marxist-Leninists must, at the same time being the most fervent enemies of American exceptionalism and American imperialism, be American patriots. America is a particular country, insofar as American Marxist-Leninists treat America as a particular country, they combat the very essence of Americanism, according which America is the universal police state of the world. It is not by burning American flags that American Marxists threaten American imperialism, it is by reigning in on American imperialism by seizing it at the level of its own particular material, national and civilisational premises.

Dialectic thinking entails that all things are annihilated on the basis of their own premises, likewise, American imperialism can only be destroyed on the very same basis that had engendered its emergence: The American state and people. No wonder that Trump was a greater anti-Imperialist than all the Baizuo frauds combined!

@XiangMai
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Regardless I don’t see the point of inviting discord between communists, MLs especially, when we should be promoting understanding and coexistence. Dengoid remains an insult and will just shut people off.

I quote Marx here: “Our task is that of ruthless criticism, and much more against ostensible friends than against open enemies; and in maintaining this our position we gladly forego cheap democratic popularity.” http://hiaw.org/defcon6/works/1850/04/kinkel.html

But he’s made his allegiance clear. His brand of “patriotic socialism” that Maupin also espouses (who met with the founder of nazbol ideology several times) appeals to the far-right, compromising the essence of marxism to placate fascists but here he made it clear he has no compassion at all for communists who don’t follow him as, in his opinion, they are not actual communists.

This attempted character assassination would work except I’m already familiar with the people and movements you mentioned. You mean Dugin? Dugin is worth reading to understand conservative resistance to imperialism. What’s more “NazBol ideology” when you really look into it is basically Social-democrats that have pinched a few ideas from Lenin and tried to incorporate nationalism. It essentially was born out of the 1990s and the sheer confusion of the time. In reality you can fit every single NazBol on earth in one room. They quickly dissolved into the “Other Russia” party showing they were a product of 1990s Russia and that “NazBol ideology” is just another slander against Marxist-Leninists now that communist has become cool.

Just an FYI on this: Black Lenin (Beness Aijo) was in the NazBol party when he was in Russia then joining some other communist parties and he participated in many brave and heroic actions in recent years.

Beness Aijo, an actual “nazbol”, has been out killing nazis in Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beness_Aijo

appeals to the far-right, compromising the essence of marxism to placate fascists but here he made it clear he has no compassion at all for communists who don’t follow him as, in his opinion, they are not actual communists.

Do you have compassion for anarchists or trotskyites? But back on topic Haz is not stopping other people doing stuff. He’s criticising them. Bayarea was actively suppressing other communists

I only read the preface because, wow, imagine writing a book over a twitter fight that lasted one evening. But he’s made his allegiance clear.

I’ll have a read of the article he wrote, thanks

@CriticalResist8
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I think everything’s been said so I’ll just leave here.

Except you characterize me as performing “character assassination” or engaging in “disingenuous and conniving behaviour” and, bro, I noticed that. You’re too bull-headed in your opinions which even led you to misunderstand some of my points so you could respond to them while putting your superior knowledge on display.

I’ve met my share of people who thought they could say anything because they were always right – including communists – and they never understand why people don’t engage with them. They probably think people respect their knowledge but no, people just don’t want to deal with the drama and being insulted for petty things. This is elitism between communists, incredible that it even exists.

I don’t appreciate being told I’m engaging in counter-revolutionary behaviour, especially when we’re talking about a literal fascist lmao

Edit: I got your second reply after sending this and I appreciate the efforts you put in that one.

@XiangMai
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Understood com and I will try to be more agreeable.

But realise you are doing the same thing in regard to “fascist jacketing” people like Maupin purely because they met with Dugin (who in no real way can be called a fascist).

There is simply no way you can accuse Maupin of being a fascist and you can only really accuse Dugin of being a fascist if you think rejecting liberalism is fascistic. Which would be a ridiculous stance to take as a communist.

@yogthos
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While Deng reforms clearly did introduce a lot of problems associated with capitalist exploitation, it’s important to note positive effects as well. These reforms allowed China to be integrated into capitalist world economically precluding open conflict. USSR was forced to spend around half its GDP on the military, while China was able to devote resources and labor towards productive causes. All of that directly led to things like BRI where China could start exporting its know how to other developing countries. Integration with the west also allowed for mass technology transfer and bootstrapped high tech economy in China. Friendly relations with the west also meant that Chinese students could be educated in top western universities. All of these factors allowed China to become the superpower that it is today.

I grew up in USSR, and one of the biggest challenges was that many intellectuals felt restricted within the system. This bred resentment towards the system as a whole and it meant that you couldn’t let people leave because many of your best and brightest would end up moving to the west. I think China is in a far better position today precisely because it’s possible to have the same quality of life as in the west.

Capitalist excess is now being actively curbed under Xi, but it’s unarguable that capitalism allowed productive forces to be developed very rapidly. Now China is able to build socialism from a place of relative prosperity. So, it seems to me that the reforms had a net positive effect in the long term.

Had there been no Sino-Soviet split, then perhaps USSR and China could’ve created their own economy that could’ve matched the west. However, after the split happened, both were in a much weaker position and were not able to develop to their full potential.

Makan
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He is a great person and I advised him personally.

@XiangMai
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On what? To make communists look fkn ridiculous and like cowardly ninjas?

I’m sure he’s a nice person. His content was very good.

But he objectively did way more harm than good and those determined to find out his identity have long already done so

Remember Stalingrad
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I got death threats and was followed daily when I was a party leader in my small town’s attempted communist party. The US has a very hostile culture towards Communists, you can lose your job simply for implying that communism isn’t terrible (I personally know people who’ve been a victim of it), you can lose your job for even just mentioning unions (also know people who’ve been victim to it, plus I work in an industry that union busts). We can potentially be imprisoned for “terrorism” by being loudly Communist at the wrong times. The FBI’s murdered our leadership, too. Bayarea’s literally just protecting his identity… ya know, so he can live like a human being under this totalitarian system we’re forced to exist in.

Literally every non-ML in this country will talk about MLs like we’re terrorists already. Bayarea hasn’t changed that perception whatsoever. He’s been a net positive for the left, simply by getting our viewpoints and dialectically materialist facts in front of a larger audience than anyone on Lemmygrad could ever hope to do.

This is one of those cases where if you disagree with him or his methods, that’s cool, you’re free to critique. but if your critique is about him concealing his identity, please just shut the fuck up.

@XiangMai
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This is one of those cases where if you disagree with him or his methods, that’s cool, you’re free to critique. but if your critique is about him concealing his identity, please just shut the fuck up.

He also actively silences communist parties that don’t toll the IdPol line, Caleb Maupin and InfraRed though. All mention of them is banned from subs he mods so it’s not just a case of criticising his methods.

He actively pushes out communists that don’t dress like terrorists out of the movement (communists much more heavily based in theory than himself)

Also I do have to laugh at the reaction to this when I found out today that he was doxxed as a lawyer that evicted families.

But to be fair, that should be expected from a dengist that thinks markets are achtually the proles friends and that China has perfected Marxism.

Also hilarious he unironically he posted this.

@ksynwa
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He did say that he didn’t help in evicting families though of course it is near impossible to find out whether it is the truth or not.

Makan
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I don’t believe so. His content’s popularity was growing fast.

@XiangMai
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With all due respect, his “content” was telling proles that “actually markets are their friends” and that China had perfected Marxism

Now, given the cold war against China I’m not particularly against China getting popular amongst Dengoids or the youth in the West. But the guy was involved in deplatforming Communist parties as well as Maupin and Haz from subs he owned because of IdPol.

I would have nothing but positive vibes to the guy if he A) wasn’t a complete prick and B) wasn’t evicting families in his dayjob as a corporate lawyer and C) organised in deplatforming actual decent Marxists (the Dengism notwithstanding) that dressed respectably and didn’t look like terrorists

@solune
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As far as I know, he has not made any blanket statements to the effect of “markets are your friends” or that “China has perfected Marxism”. He has talked about Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, which is specifically Marxism Leninism as it applies to the material conditions of China, and involves the controlled use of markets in order to develop China’s economy quickly enough to survive. Unless he has changed his tune significantly since I last watched him, he has not claimed that Socialism with Chinese Characteristics was applicable everywhere.

As for the other stuff, I honestly don’t know anything about that. Can you provide links to information on that so that I can properly understand the claims being made and the evidence provided?

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