With almost 6 months of this war approaching, I think it’s time to kinda recap, reevaluate and redicuss this war. Curious what yous think about the state of the armies, the strategies of either side, what are your predictions, what do you think the goals are and who’s closer to achieving them?

I’ll go first and mostly talk about the Russian side to keep it shorter and because it’s the active party mostly.

Strategy

Honestly even after 6 months I find this incredibly hard to pin down. What are their plans with this war geopolitically and on the ground? Yes, we’ve heard “demilitarization” and “denazification” when things first started, talk about creating a multipolar world has since started too. But let’s be real, that’s all incredibly vague and the Russians really aren’t communicating anything more specific at all. The liberation of Donbass is the one concrete goal I can make out.

Do they want a landlocked Ukraine, destroy it completely, demilitarize and destabilize the entire West, just liberate Donbass? I don’t know and to me it feels like they didn’t start this war with a clear, concrete goal. Maybe they had one but didn’t anticipate the dimensions this would take, maybe it’s all going according to plan - I’m just unable to tell and to me it feels like nobody on either side is able to tell either.

What’s the strategy on the ground? Again, Russia is obv tight lipped about this, but I still can’t tell this one either. What feels somewhat certain is the following

  • The pace is absurdly slow
  • This whole thing has mostly become a positional artillery war of attrition
  • Russia is unwilling or incapable of sacrificing large amounts of men, civilians and equipment in big armored assaults
  • Size of the invasion force has been constant despite Russia being outnumbered

So where does that leave us? My most generous interpretation is that Russia is content with shelling the Ukrainians to hell, while fixing its own economy, doing its best to erode US and EU positions around the world and deepening their internal crises. That they’re unimpressed with the fallout of sanctions, they don’t care about completing things fast at all and really the kinetic war has been relegated to second priority, behind the larger economic and geopolitical calculations. That it’s useful, because the West needs to dig itself deeper into the mess the longer this goes on and because it allows Russia to demilitarize NATO at a comfy pace without engaging it directly.

The least favourable interpretation is that Russia is not capable of going any faster than it is currently, either because it isn’t viable politically (eg declaration of war, higher casualties) or it militarily just can’t. That they didn’t have a clear plan going into this, got caught off-guard by the Wests rabid response and now don’t have the means or the plans to end both the kinetic war and the fires it started.

No idea which is closer to the truth and I’m not going to be a smartass and just say it’s something in the middle. It doesn’t feel super well thought out and planned, it doesn’t feel like a panicked, incompetent adventure at all either and it also doesn’t feel like some mix of the two.

Predictions

Always hard to make in war and politics, but especially so in this war. Just a couple I feel somewhat confident in

  • This war isn’t ending this year
  • Ukraine doesn’t have and won’t have any offensive potential
  • Russian offensives on Kharkiv, Odessa, Nikolaev, etc are hopium. They won’t assault them, they won’t encircle them and they won’t besiege them this year. If they could or wanted to they would’ve done so early in the war
  • Bakhmut-Siversk line will take at least another month to take/break
  • Unless UAF collapses somehow, Slavyansk & Kramatorsk won’t fall this year

Fall and winter are approaching and I’d imagine that’ll slow the absurdly slow pace even further at some point. But I reckon winter will decide this war anyway with the economic and social crisis really kicking the EU in the gut by then. They won’t be able to support Ukraine past a point and Ukraine is simply not capable of surviving without foreign help anymore.

Other than that I only see a few options how this whole thing could change its dynamic. A declaration of war and mobilization, a collapse of the West, a collapse of the UAF or deployment of Russian reserves in Ukraine after the referendums to free up more regulars for combat. Last one seems most likely, but no idea if that’ll really change things that much.

Bottom line

Rereading this feels like a whole lot of “idk”, but honestly, despite heavily engaging with this conflict almost everyday for the past 6 months, that’s still pretty much where I’m at. It’s uniquely strange to me and just very hard to really make sense of - propaganda and fog of war certainly aren’t helping.

Keen on reading your opinions and whether you guys have been able to make more sense of it than my dumbass.

Cheers

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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    262 years ago

    I actually think it’s highly likely the war will end this year. Here are a few reasons for that.

    • Ukraine lost its military industrial capacity and isn’t able to replace weapons and armor they lose in fighting.
    • Western weapons come nowhere close to replacing what Ukraine is losing in the field.
    • Ukraine is also suffering tremendous losses in terms of manpower, and this is simply not sustainable. It’s not possible to train new soldiers at the rate they’re losing them, and they’re running out of people military age who are able to be drafted into the army.
    • Donbas defenses were built up over eight years, and this is why it took a long time to break through them. Now that Russia broke through, the pace of fighting will increase rapidly and we’re likely to see more maneuver warfare with Russia quickly taking territory. The troops that were tied up at Donbas will also be able to redeploy to other places.
    • Russia will absolutely be doing offensives on Kharkiv, Odessa, and Nikolaev. They’ve pretty much said as much at this point. The reason they were holding off is that they had to gain control of Donbas first. Russia is operating with a limited force in Ukraine.
    • The economy in Ukraine is collapsing, they’ve already defaulted on their foreign debt, and hyperinflation is looking likely. The west is currently footing the bill for pretty much all the government and military spending and salaries. Food and energy shortages are also becoming a serious problem.
    • The west is obviously having huge economic problems of their own, and we’re seeing support for Ukraine collapsing. Once the west funding gets pulled things will unravel very quickly.
  • @CriticalResist8A
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    192 years ago

    The goal of war is to bring the enemy’s capabilities down so much they have no choice but to accept your demands (loosely paraphrased from Clausewitz). You don’t need to go anywhere beyond that.

    If Ukraine does not want to negotiate, Russia has no choice but to keep committing more and more resources and prolonging the war so that Ukraine will be forced to negotiate.

    In this model the two opposing forces then commit more resources to counter the resources their enemy brought, and that’s how conflicts snowball and escalate.

    The problem is it’s so difficult to find actual information – and I mean that from both sides. They keep casualties and advances pretty secret. And on the pro-Ukraine side, which is all western media essentially, I have no idea where Ukraine even is at right now. Last I heard there’s no more negotiations, it’s a mess trying to find info in the first place.

    Only thing I can tell you for sure is there is no war in the history of ever that was announced would be over in a couple months and then actually was over in that time. They always say it’s gonna be quick and easy, but it never is.

  • ButtigiegMineralMap
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    152 years ago

    recently it’s been a tough sell trying to let anti-war family understand why Russia is at war. I mean we agree that we don’t want to see more Ukrainian civilians die and we don’t want the working class to be put in danger, like the stress that Zaporizhzhiya plant workers must feel. Overall we agree that this war hurts the working class but it’s tough to bridge that gap and look for a solution which saves as many proletarians as possible. Idk what do y’all think. I support Donbass and Russia fighting Nazis is based but I mean part of me feels really bad about what’s happening there daily and that it’s so drawn out and taking so many lives. This sucks, I wish Donbass was free already

    • @ledward
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  • stalinsghost☭
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    152 years ago

    Russia is irresponsible for letting it go on this long but the west using this as profit making bonanza and Ukraines elite willing to fight to seemingly the last child is grossly inadequate and I think perhaps Ukraine should be annexed but I doubt Russias goals haven’t been met yet and war is just not good (I know based take but) so a fast solution is better than a good solution

    • @Shrike502
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      152 years ago

      How would you suggest it get resolved faster? Ukraine had eight years to shore up defences and drum up the ideological zealotry. Not to mention the training, weapons and materiel provided by NATO. It’s kinda hard to go quickly when the enemy is consciously placing artillery smack dab in the middle of residential areas. Faster would mean a Shock and Awe type, with UA cities turned to cinder.

      • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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        82 years ago

        NATO not pouring piles of weapons, materials, and training into Ukraine would be the top of the list.

        • @Shrike502
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          62 years ago

          Well NATO doesn’t seem keen to stop. So that is off the table.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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            82 years ago

            They very much do seem keen to stop. The amounts of military aid have been getting steadily more slim. NATO knows the game is up, and they’re quietly weaning themselves off Ukraine.

            • @Shrike502
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              32 years ago

              Scholz had just signed another batch of weapons, as did Slovakia. It’s not a lot, compared to the absolute sale that was the original USian package, but it’s there. And thirty T-72s is still thirty tanks too many.

              Additionally it opens the door for more drastic and desperate actions - such as the current shitshow around Zaporozhye, or the talks about chemical weapons being used against Russian soldiers.

              • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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                62 years ago

                Ukraine still needs tank crews to actually operate these tanks. When Ukraine loses tanks then they also lose their trained tank crews along with them. The west is desperately trying to prolong this as much as possible, but it’s pretty clear that this can’t go on much longer.

                There will likely be ever more desperate actions taken going forward, but that was always going to be the case.

      • stalinsghost☭
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        42 years ago

        Like I said I doubt Russians goals with this haven’t been met so literally it can end faster by Russia discontinuing the campaign. Another comment suggested NATO stop funneling weapons and military aid in and also very much that Zelensky could and should surrender. So many ways that it could end tomorrow and every day of this war is as irresponsible as the previous day. War isn’t good and so many people are dying. Nobody is talking about leveling kyiv or kharkiv whatever but what point is the illegitimate Zelensky government going to say alright its done, never because they’re living a fantasy where Ukraine is gonna March on Moscow somehow

  • @Shrike502
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    132 years ago

    The goal, I would argue is a takeover of various high profit industries that there are - gas transit hubs, grain transit hubs, etc. This tracks with the apparent method of precision missile strikes - the infrastructure is desired to be intact or repairable.

    As for why it is so slow and undecided, don’t forget that modern Russia is capitalist and thus is subject to the usual shortcomings of the system. Corruption, overblown budgets, etc. It’s very much possible that the level of preparation on paper looked much better than it was in reality.

    Additionally, it certainly looks like the government has underestimated the sheer psychosis and indoctrination of the population (and military). Shit like tossing molotovs at passing tanks, or distributing assault rifles to Teroborona dummies, or the absolute insanity that is shelling a nuclear power plant. It seems that the government expected a quick and clean victory, the kind yanks show on TV (yes I know that isn’t true).

    As for how it will go, I cannot say. If we’re somewhat lucky, they’ll find a Kadyrov like figure - a well known local figure who would switch sides - and establish a new government, specifically of locals that would be loyal. I suppose you could call it comprador?

    Otherwise I agree with the other comrades. It’s not going to be fun in the upcoming years here in Russia. The international psychosis will only grow. The internal psychosis will only grow. China won’t jump in to save our Laovai asses and everyone else doesn’t care.

    • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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      92 years ago

      The hypothesis that Russia wants to take over Ukraine’s energy reserves is what I subscribe to.

      Taking over grain production makes sense too.

      I don’t think Russia needs to move quickly. They have the luxury of capturing Ukraine at their leisure.

      Ukraine needs this war to be over quickly. They can’t keep giving up territory, and they also can’t fight a traditional military campaign. They don’t have the numbers.

        • @RedSquid
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          92 years ago

          I think roughly since the start of August? We’ve started to see western media tentatively put out an article here, an op ed there, that the war isn’t going as well as they’d been telling the public, that Zelensky won’t be delivering a victory speech in Red Square. It really feels to me like they’ve created such a bloodlust and frenzy in western ‘apolitical’ libs that they’re findinf it harder now to reel things back in.

        • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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          42 years ago

          Don’t underestimate the defense industry. They’ll drop a few bribes to keep the DoD spigot open.

    • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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      2 years ago

      [Duplicate 🤦🏽‍♂️]

      The hypothesis that Russia wants to take over Ukraine’s energy reserves is what I subscribe to.

      Taking over grain production makes sense too.

      I don’t think Russia needs to move quickly. They have the luxury of capturing Ukraine at their leisure.

      Ukraine needs this war to be over quickly. They can’t keep giving up territory, and they also can’t fight a traditional military campaign. They don’t have the numbers.

  • @ZarathustrasApe420
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    122 years ago

    Watch New Atlas near daily updates on the conflict. He’s on YouTube and elsewhere. For those of you asking, “WhYs iT TAkINg sO LoNG!?” he goes into great detail about Ukraine’s defenses and Russia’s long term strategy.

  • @Mzuark
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    112 years ago

    It’s a shitshow. A part of me still thinks none of this is even happening and it’s all a big show.

    Ukraine has been trying to make this a global conflict for months (atrocity propaganda, alleged chemical weapon attacks, false flags, the Nuclear plant standoff) and I’m kinda shocked that America hasn’t just stepped in yet. Considering all the money and guns we’re sending over, this is clearly a big deal for us. But it’s interesting, the longer this goes on the more and more overt it becomes that Zelensky is both corrupt and actively prolonging the war for money.

    Russia is genuinely fucked no matter what they do. If they pull out, the nazis are going to rebuild better than ever because of the obscene amounts of aid they’ve been getting, and the Ukraine pfps will probably start calling for a counter-invasion. But if they stay, it’s a money sink and their reputation in the west will continue going down the tubes. Caitlin Johnstone said it the best “Grown adults think Russia invaded Ukraine for no reason or just because their evil” the levels of propaganda surrounding this whole mess is almost surreal.

    • @RedSquid
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      142 years ago

      I’m sorry but… why the hell should Russia care what western bozos think? It is far more valuable that they maintain good relations with China, with India, with Iran, with so many nations in the global south that aren’t considered ‘important’ which it seems they are managing just fine, India notably, in spite of all their west-worship, has refused to go along with our insane demands for sanctions.

      I also don’t see them pulling out from the territories they taken. What would they gain from such? A genocide of the people of those regions by a deranged band of neo-Nazis and the average whitey mcfashface would still hate Russia - hell they’d probably celebrate the ethnic cleansing.

      • @Mzuark
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        72 years ago

        At this point, I’m concerned about what’s going to happen to Russians who live abroad. They’re already trying to strip away visas and send students home for the crime of being born in “the bad country”

      • @Shrike502
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        72 years ago

        why the hell should Russia care what western bozos think

        Because west has been a money sink for our capitalist class for decades. Not just western Europe - all of the “international community”. Cyprus, Australia - you name it. I would imagine these types would very much like to go back to sending their kids to French schools, while sipping coffee in Austria. And since we are a capitalist country, these types have a lot of say.

        There are other considerations. For example, we’ve been buying a lot of medicine from Germany, medicine that is now banned or limited. There could be alternatives from other countries - i.e. India - but they don’t seem eager to enter the market. Likewise with other commodities. And it sure doesn’t look like the moneybags want to invest into homegrown production, not when it’s easier to buy shit for gas money.

        Finally there is a cultural aspect. Intuitively Germany and even USA feel closer from a cultural standpoint than India or China. Perhaps it isn’t so. But that’s the idea that’s been hammering into people’s heads for a while.

    • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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      72 years ago

      The military-industrial complex in the US is happy to get sacks of money, and the US is happy to not need to send troops over in yet another war.

      Besides, the US Military would rather focus on China. Sinophobia is an easier sell to the public, and China has better funding.

      • @PolandIsAStateOfMind
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        2 years ago

        It;'s more about geopolitics. USA since 20 years pushed Russia from the closing with EU, which even Putin tried to do very hard. So, as obvious consequence, we have EU eating USA ass and Russia closing to China. And USA obviously did predicted that when they started that politics, but they did not predicted two things: that the Russia will rebound from the disaster of 90’s and neither the giant rise of China. So instead of two poor countries divided by compradors and half controlled by western capital they have legit threat of ending their hegemony.

        China is bigger threat but also harder to strike at, as USA realised when their bid at Hong Kong failed. So they turned their attention to destabilise Russia - in short 3 years we had supporting Navalny, coup attempts in Belarus and Kazakhstan, multiple other attepts along the Russia’s border - all failed, so they activated their trump (no pun intended) card, Ukrainian puppet state. But as we see it goes poorly, so they are now shifting to China again, with Taiwan being obvious first vector of meddling.

        • @jollyrogue@lemmy.ml
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          32 years ago

          Western Europe never accepted the Russians, or eastern Europe really, so Russia in the EU was probably a pipe dream.

          I don’t see the US starting a hot war with China. Cold Wars over long periods of time are better for the defense industry, and they have much lower body counts. Plus, the US needs China. The US exported manufacturing to China in the '80s, and now they’re stuck. A hot war would cripple the US like China’s COVID lockdowns did.

          The US is in it’s own decline. It needs to quit sinking so much money into the defense industry, and spend the money of domestic programs. $3B to Ukraine was announced today. That money would have gone a long way to improving the lives of many people in the US.

    • @Shrike502
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      62 years ago

      Russia is genuinely fucked no matter what they do

      Ain’t that fun.

    • @quality_fun
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      52 years ago

      “But if they stay, it’s a money sink and their reputation in the west will continue going down the tubes.”

      is there no way for russia to win, then? it’s an unwinnable war like iraq was for the us?

      • @PolandIsAStateOfMind
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        About Ukraine it will be hard. I mean winning the war will not be very hard, but later will be. They need to repeat Chechenya. Thing is, Chechens were less fanatical than the ukronazis and Ukraine is much bigger with much more people. It’s possible though.

        The world? There is a way and they are doing it. West, after 3 decades of duplicity, finally openly declared itself as enemies for even the dumbest people to see clearly. So Russia should just stop minding them and seek closing with other opponents of the west and neutral countries along the economical line - which they are doing atm. Now is the first great opportunity to strike at the foundation of USA imperialism - dollar.

      • 小莱卡
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        42 years ago

        In every war there are winners and losers, but it is wrong to talk about whole countries as winners or losers. The ones that “win” wars are the capitalists that profit over wars (military industrial companies, construction material companies, banks, PMC, etc) while the ones that “lose” wars are the capitalists that do not profit from the war AND the working class people of both sides (they always lose because not only they provide their life as manpower they also provide their money to the state through taxes, which go directly to subsidize the capitalists that are directly involved in the war, and ALSO have to directly subsidize the other capitalists that are not directly involved in the war through inflation.

      • @Shrike502
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        42 years ago

        It would make sense from a NATO perspective. I fail to see another reason why they were doing near damn everything in their power to make this war happen in the first place.

  • @orc2
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    • Black AOC
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      92 years ago

      That’s actually kinda hilarious, when you think about it-- like ♪ "oh, they’ll send you all the weapons you can hold, but they’ll never send you men…" ♫

  • @OrnluWolfjarl
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    62 years ago

    It’s quite obvious that Russia aims to:

    • take over at least eastern Ukraine, where the people are mostly pro-Russian, and most resources are concentrated.

    • destroy the military capabilities of Ukraine. A war of attrition makes sense with this goal in mind, particarly frequent strikes at headquarters and military industrial facilities.

    • dismantle/weaken the neonazi military groups that are participating in the fighting. Strikes and assaults against their positions seem to be a priority.

    • destabilize Ukraine economically and politically. Prolonging the war as much as possible achieves this. After 6 months and Ukraine is already facing hyperinflation and huge debts. The people are losing faith in the government. The West is quickly losing interest in supporting Ukraine. Destabilization would mean that if Ukraine keeps existing, it’ll be easier to control politically by Russia.

    • wait for winter to make living in Ukraine that much more difficult. Winter would also greatly weaken the position of Ukrainian armed force, which is already suffering from supply issues. I think Russia hopes that desertions and draft evasion will ramp up.

    • damage the economies of the EU countries and create issues for NATO. The EU is hoping for a quick end to the war, preferably before winter, so they can start lifting sanctions and resume the gas flow. If this doesn’t happen then the EU is more likely to lift the sanctions anyway and pressure Ukraine to enter negotiations. Long-term, damage to the EU would mean less meddling in the Russian geopolitical space and possibly reluctance to keep following US foreign policy so closely.

    • increase Russia’s global influence. The more damage to EU and the US, the more able is Russia to swoop in and take advantage of the vacuum around the world. We are already seeing this in North Africa, where Russia has taken advantage of the retreat of Western neocolonial forces (e.g. In Mali). Russian actions have also attracted support from most of Asia. BRICS has been strengthened more in the last 6 months than since its founding. Being willing to resist the US giant and showing that it can maintain the fight long-term has attracted many oppressed countries to the Russian banner.

    • either force Ukraine to the negotiating table, where Russia will demand guarantees against joining NATO and recognizing the annexation of the occupied territories, or take over the whole of Ukraine. Either goal becomes more and more achievable the longer the fighting is kept up.

    Also, keep in mind that Russia wishes to keep its own attrition to a minimum and it’s currently facing the most defensible line of Ukraine, with a minimal but superior Russian force. Russia is basically performing a siege, waiting for the Ukrainian forces to weaken enough so it can initiate an assault.

  • @Shaggy0291
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    62 years ago

    Starting to think the demands of this war will evolve into a full annexation agenda on Russia’s part. The chances of a landlocked rump-state Ukraine seems less and less likely as the conflict rages on and the stakes get higher and higher. Relations with the west have reached an unfixable point, so Russia needs to grab as much land and resources as possible to leverage against renewed aggression from them. Seizing Ukrainian oil and grain gives the Russian state a great deal more leverage when the time comes to cut a deal and seek new, tentative diplomatic relationships with European powers. At bare minimum, a Russian stranglehold on oil is likely to keep the Germans keen, who possess the economic muscle and influence to hold the rest of Europe back. With recent American efforts to squeeze Russia out of the European energy market causing all this current malarkey, the German state will almost certainly be mindful that they have a much easier time keeping the lights on trading with Russia rather than America.

    • @Shrike502
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      92 years ago

      war will evolve into a full annexation agenda

      Which sadly be interpreted as a “Toldja so” moment by western media and politicians. And people will swallow it, oblivious to the reasons behind the actions.