Not only has the NATO been expanding eastwards, it also invaded and destroyed multiple countries during that time in wars of aggression. Yugoslavia, Syria, and Libya being prime examples. NATO is also currently backing a literal genocide in Yemen.
The collapse of USSR was absolutely a disaster, and the quality of life in the vast majority of post Soviet republics never recovered to the standard of living people had during USSR. Not only that, but collapse USSR led to instability across Eurasia and many consequent wars with countless people dying. Anybody arguing that the collapse of USSR was anything but a disaster is utterly historically illiterate. Here’s just one example for you:
Taiwan is part of China. This is a well documented fact, and Taiwan’s legal standing is not in question. This is the position held by the UN, and it’s the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed.
The whole narrative of China oppressing Uyghurs has little basis and in fact standard of living in Xinjiang has been steadily improving. All the evidence for these supposed concentration camps comes from a religious fanatic by the name of Adrian Zenz who is not in any way credible source on anything.
The reality of China is that China hasn’t been at war for past 70 years, and that quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. Social mobility happens to be very high in China as well.
A lot of us support both, yes. Resources on both why that is and debunks to pretty much everything you’ve mentioned is littered all over this instance. Probably seen this link getting dropped?
Dude, it’s the fediverse. Use another instance that better suits your worldview if you’re this bothered by the politics here, don’t try to shame and change the existing userbase of an instance for having different political opinions as you. That’s the whole damn point of Lemmy!
Really the problem is you don’t want to acknowledge the difference between diverging political views and agressiveness/insults/fanaticism.
You never say anything when people of your “political opinion” insult others, or call for brigading. So you let the harrasment and sealioning go on and seem happy with that. Maybe do something about it before complaining that other people complain here ?
@goosefetisch I might be just too sick of russian propaganda, but my only reaction when I read threads you’ve linked was: ban lemmygrad, ban insane commie “fans” and move on. Because when their messages start to be indistinguishable from propaganda, they are lost, and talking to them is just wasting time and nerves
Mercator is a kind of a map projection. It can skew the visual representation of the actual size of a country. Northern/southern regions appear stretched, while equatorial regions appear comparatively smaller. For example, the continent Africa is way bigger than this map projection suggest. Also, the nothern parts of Russia are stretched, so Russia is smaller than it appears.
Still, Russia is 28 times bigger in actual square kilometers. 28 fucking times.
Thinking about this… if you know about the mercator projection (which the user at least now of, and what it means), I’m quite sure you’re not dumb enough to not realize that Russia is 28 times bigger. So, honestly… it’s 100% a troll.
I know. I’ve just never actually seen anyone using map projections as propaganda before (that post they linked to and accused of doing so is the stretch of the century, like, do you expect them to mail you a 3D globe? It’s clear they just pulled the default maps off Wikipedia because convenience.)
I imagine it was done, and would have worked in, like, the 18th century when 90% of the population couldn’t afford to read books, but we’re in the age of the internet when you can just look up the actual fucking land area of any country.
Glowies are having such a hard time here. They’re so used to being able to just drop some tropes and get a brigade to jump in to defend them. It’s hilarious to watch them actually having to argue their point with people who are educated on the subject.
Doesn’t this violate the whole “don’t be a dick to each other” rule?
I did my best to phrase this post in a way such as to not attack anyone, morerather the arguments (and also phrase it in a way such that i open the door to discussion instead of “omg i cant stand those people”). If you think at any point I did that wrong, do you mind sharing?
Stalin’s a hero, the gulags were right, the CPC is on the right side of history, and there is no Uyghur genocide.
Please tell me you’re trolling and I’m just missing something
So your only successful example is someone who wasn’t successful?
Okay, well what are your best examples of communist success? Because last time I checked the USSR was dissolved and - as evidenced by Xinjiang and Taiwan - China has pursued a route of fascist imperialism and Sinicization (which is hardly communist).
Seems like kind of a loser political philosophy.
This argument has no value and could be applied to literally any political philosophy.
In case you got the wrong idea, anarchists are generally not opposed to justified hierarchy. I agree that trains need to have rules in place to stop them smashing into each other, however I sternly argue that that does not necessitate a state.
Same thing applies to the cotton mill: if everyone needs to be there at a certain time for the mill to run then without the workers adhering to this rule there can be no cotton produced - but the workers aren’t stupid. They will agree on a time for all of them, and if that time doesn’t work for someone they can just nope out and get some other job, no questions asked. They have no right to force someone to work the cotton mill for the same reason a slaveowner has no right to force someone to work cotton farms, and as such the only reason any authority would be needed would be if you were to force people to run the cotton mills (even if they had other things to do at that times). If someone doesn’t want to help at the cotton mills at that time, then so be it, but its not like he has some divine obligation to do such work.
What prevents any other anarchist grouping from claiming the hierarchy you prefer isn’t justified?
however I sternly argue that that does not necessitate a state.
Lets make this simple: A bunch of oppressed people group together and use violence to defend their interests. What prevents any anarchist from calling that an “authoritarian redfash state”?
The “freedom” of the capitalist class is the freedom to extract surplus value from workers. Should that freedom not be challenged? When workers do exactly that, don’t capitalists and their defenders start whining about the sanctity of “freedom”?
How dare they have criticisms of my philosophy which advocates an authoritarian dictatorship that would probably send them to gulag! Clearly they aren’t worth debating!
This might surprise you but:
Also, no, both sides not bad. One side good. One side bad. USSR good.
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Are we allowing posts like these now?
Three letter agencies have infiltrated lemmy already. The battle to prevail would be glorious comrades 🔥🖤
Fr this is just an anticommunist gish gallop
For internet historians; https://web.archive.org/web/20220812125431/https://lemmy.ml/post/417095
Sadly that’s great documentation.
Not only has the NATO been expanding eastwards, it also invaded and destroyed multiple countries during that time in wars of aggression. Yugoslavia, Syria, and Libya being prime examples. NATO is also currently backing a literal genocide in Yemen.
The collapse of USSR was absolutely a disaster, and the quality of life in the vast majority of post Soviet republics never recovered to the standard of living people had during USSR. Not only that, but collapse USSR led to instability across Eurasia and many consequent wars with countless people dying. Anybody arguing that the collapse of USSR was anything but a disaster is utterly historically illiterate. Here’s just one example for you:
and here’s what people who actually lived in USSR have to say:
Taiwan is part of China. This is a well documented fact, and Taiwan’s legal standing is not in question. This is the position held by the UN, and it’s the fundamental basis for having diplomatic relations between US and China per Potsdam Proclamation that was signed 77 years ago between China, the US & the UK. This position has never officially changed.
The whole narrative of China oppressing Uyghurs has little basis and in fact standard of living in Xinjiang has been steadily improving. All the evidence for these supposed concentration camps comes from a religious fanatic by the name of Adrian Zenz who is not in any way credible source on anything.
The millions of Uyghurs being supposedly imprisoned story is based on two highly dubious “studies.”. CHRD states that it interviewed dozens of ethnic Uyghurs in the course of its study, but their enormous estimate was ultimately based on interviews with exactly eight Uyghur individuals. Based on this absurdly small sample of research subjects in an area whose total population is 20 million, CHRD “extrapolated estimates” that “at least 10% of villagers […] are being detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are being forced to attend day/evening re-education camps in the villages or townships, totaling 30% in both types of camps.”
The reality of China is that China hasn’t been at war for past 70 years, and that quality of life in China continues to steadily improve and the government is actively working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, and in fact China is the only place in a world where any meaningful poverty reduction is happening. If we take China out of the equation poverty actually increased in real terms:
China also massively invests in infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, they built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.
90% of families in the country own their home, giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. Social mobility happens to be very high in China as well.
Comrades! I comment for the algorithm, may more of us see this insanity and come to our aid!
It’s called the CPC.
A lot of us support both, yes. Resources on both why that is and debunks to pretty much everything you’ve mentioned is littered all over this instance. Probably seen this link getting dropped?
Dude, it’s the fediverse. Use another instance that better suits your worldview if you’re this bothered by the politics here, don’t try to shame and change the existing userbase of an instance for having different political opinions as you. That’s the whole damn point of Lemmy!
Really the problem is you don’t want to acknowledge the difference between diverging political views and agressiveness/insults/fanaticism.
You never say anything when people of your “political opinion” insult others, or call for brigading. So you let the harrasment and sealioning go on and seem happy with that. Maybe do something about it before complaining that other people complain here ?
like seriously, I am tired of literally saying the same like 5 things all the goddamn time.
What sort of content would you like to see?
anything that shows class consciousness. Asking for you to avoid political talks for the past 100 years would be disingenuous.
@goosefetisch I might be just too sick of russian propaganda, but my only reaction when I read threads you’ve linked was: ban lemmygrad, ban insane commie “fans” and move on. Because when their messages start to be indistinguishable from propaganda, they are lost, and talking to them is just wasting time and nerves
I’m assuming you’re also one to screech about free speech.
@HiddenLayer5 you are free to say whatever you want, I am free to disagree with you or ignore you
Umm. You’re contradicting yourself there miss
We have fans? Is this guy saying we are the fans? what is going on!
@goosefetisch Look at this https://lemmy.ml/post/417095/comment/251192. This person is lost to humanity if they’re doing it unironically. If it is irony, why bother
@HiddenLayer5 he is literally saying “I want Red Terror to happen again”
I’m half serious, half wanting to post my propaganda posters cause I’m bored.
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Stopped reading right there. Either troll or idiot.
What does that even mean? What does that have to do with fucking anything?
Mercator is a kind of a map projection. It can skew the visual representation of the actual size of a country. Northern/southern regions appear stretched, while equatorial regions appear comparatively smaller. For example, the continent Africa is way bigger than this map projection suggest. Also, the nothern parts of Russia are stretched, so Russia is smaller than it appears.
Still, Russia is 28 times bigger in actual square kilometers. 28 fucking times.
Thinking about this… if you know about the mercator projection (which the user at least now of, and what it means), I’m quite sure you’re not dumb enough to not realize that Russia is 28 times bigger. So, honestly… it’s 100% a troll.
Don’t feed the troll.
I know. I’ve just never actually seen anyone using map projections as propaganda before (that post they linked to and accused of doing so is the stretch of the century, like, do you expect them to mail you a 3D globe? It’s clear they just pulled the default maps off Wikipedia because convenience.)
I imagine it was done, and would have worked in, like, the 18th century when 90% of the population couldn’t afford to read books, but we’re in the age of the internet when you can just look up the actual fucking land area of any country.
Ding ding ding, found a glowie.
Wow, the CIA sure is pretty fast to get some shills to shit on any communist group bigger than 2000 people.
Glowies are having such a hard time here. They’re so used to being able to just drop some tropes and get a brigade to jump in to defend them. It’s hilarious to watch them actually having to argue their point with people who are educated on the subject.
Because the USSR is the best country ever, and the PRC is the best modern country
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nah no hate, you’re just answering
Because we do. Nice to have a break from the boring western standard and all its brain worms.
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Preach comrade!
I did my best to phrase this post in a way such as to not attack anyone, morerather the arguments (and also phrase it in a way such that i open the door to discussion instead of “omg i cant stand those people”). If you think at any point I did that wrong, do you mind sharing?
Please tell me you’re trolling and I’m just missing something
Ironically I’ve never actually read it.
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Because last time there was a “successful socialist movement” it lead to the Red Army invading and annexing anarchist free territories that helped crush the White Army calling them “an enemy behind our lines”
Why don’t you take your tankieshit back to leftypol and leave us alone?
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Okay, well what are your best examples of communist success? Because last time I checked the USSR was dissolved and - as evidenced by Xinjiang and Taiwan - China has pursued a route of fascist imperialism and Sinicization (which is hardly communist).
This argument has no value and could be applied to literally any political philosophy.
In case you got the wrong idea, anarchists are generally not opposed to justified hierarchy. I agree that trains need to have rules in place to stop them smashing into each other, however I sternly argue that that does not necessitate a state. Same thing applies to the cotton mill: if everyone needs to be there at a certain time for the mill to run then without the workers adhering to this rule there can be no cotton produced - but the workers aren’t stupid. They will agree on a time for all of them, and if that time doesn’t work for someone they can just nope out and get some other job, no questions asked. They have no right to force someone to work the cotton mill for the same reason a slaveowner has no right to force someone to work cotton farms, and as such the only reason any authority would be needed would be if you were to force people to run the cotton mills (even if they had other things to do at that times). If someone doesn’t want to help at the cotton mills at that time, then so be it, but its not like he has some divine obligation to do such work.
What prevents any other anarchist grouping from claiming the hierarchy you prefer isn’t justified?
Lets make this simple: A bunch of oppressed people group together and use violence to defend their interests. What prevents any anarchist from calling that an “authoritarian redfash state”?
The “freedom” of the capitalist class is the freedom to extract surplus value from workers. Should that freedom not be challenged? When workers do exactly that, don’t capitalists and their defenders start whining about the sanctity of “freedom”?
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