Ive pretty much concluded that the genocide accusarions and forced labor accusations are either whole lies, lies of omission, shoddy translations of Chinese law, and basically a straight up psyop info war on western minds.

And it took some doing, but I managed to help my wife be more skeptical of what China and other countries are doing; they even dont believe the story of the genocides.

However. We have a girlfriend. And they’re a sweetheart and their heart is in the right place. But they are hardcore super proud liberal capital D democrat. And they’re big mad that my wife and I are skeptical of western claims.

And Im tired. I dont wanna hash it out. i dont wanna educate. But they’re very upset and will not drop it.

Do we have a master list of all the debunking here?

Honestly. Id rather not talk about it at all because in the bigger picture; genocide talk is just moralistic navel gazing. But here I am.

They’re a very sweet person who are very involved in their community. But there is just this one nugget of useless political Bullshut I gotta sort out.

That is UNLESS they can respect my wishes to just… not talk about international news and politics.

  • @pinkeston
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    2 years ago

    Yea I’m gonna be real, unless you personally sit down and try to explain things to them, there’s no way you sending them a giant list of compiled sources and readings is gonna change their mind. They’re probably gonna just completely ignore you

    Imagine if a Flat Earther friend suddenly messaged you a bunch of articles and essays written on why the Earth is flat. You’re not gonna read any of it

    But if they try talking to you while you’re hanging out you’re much more likely to give them some thought

    “As revolutionaries, we don’t have the right to say we are tired of explaining. We must never stop explaining. We know that when the people understand, they cannot help but follow us.” - Sankara

    Maybe try to re-visit it in a week or two to take a break

  • @Munrock
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    132 years ago

    If they’re a liberal capital D Democrat you have some work ahead of you.

    I find the sticking point in a lot of cases is the assumption that the US/private media is credible and China isn’t. When it comes to the US’s word against China, if the US gets the benefit of the doubt the rest of the battle is unwinnable.

    It has to start with discrediting the US, and making them aware of the fact that their perception of the Chinese government is entirely through a hostile lens.

    A weird breakthrough I had with a friend was playing Sea of Thieves. We’re in Hong Kong and the Mainland players that VPN to play it end up on our region’s servers. So we meet mainlanders. And they instantly had more credibility to this friend of mine because they were ‘risking their lives’ to play the game, so were probably ballsy enough not to self-censor.

    So of course those mainlanders we were meeting all liked their government, thought Western media was batshit crazy (and terrifying), and insisted that it’s actually really easy to bypass the firewall to play Western games and the real reason more people don’t do it is because they prefer the stuff on their side more.

    Those talks started pulling down the framework of lies that was holding up my friend’s perspective.

    I guess the TL;DR of this is: find a way for your friend to meet actual Chinese in actual China, in a way where they can’t be dismissed as ‘brainwashed’ or self-censoring.

    • @pinkeston
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      72 years ago

      Your HK friend used to think like that? Did they never just, travel an hour to cross the border and visit mainland?

      • @Munrock
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        52 years ago

        Nope. Most expats can live here for decades and never cross the border. And hell, if they do cross the border they think every single person they meet is either a paid actor or self-censoring out of fear.

        Got to remember, they think it’s dangerous. They think they might be taken aside at the border checkpoint for smiling at a guard or having a book in their bag, and never be seen again. Everyone has heard a story of how that happened from someone else. It’s fucking self-propagating propaganda. Or they worry they might slip over and break their necks on the pavements covered in human feces, because everyone knows Mainlanders shit in the street and every single fucking photo you see of China doesn’t have shit in the street because they’re all staged.

        Got to remember, this is a city where people can’t afford to buy homes and are crushed by rent payments, and they think it’s the fault of the CPC (that party that just loves landlords and the squicking sound they make when you step on them) and they look for help from the UK (who made the CPC promise in the joint decleration that they wouldn’t impose Socialism or Socialist policy (the kind that lets people afford houses) on Hong Kong for 50 years). It’s fucked here. Black is white and white is black.

  • @SaddamHussein24
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    52 years ago

    This video is great. Debunks everything in little more than an hour. Although i agree with that other comment, you should watch the video with her and explain it to her. Otherwise its likely she wont believe it.

    https://youtu.be/TPA_hLdU4Jc