MVP and Anarchism (Part 3)

Ok, so I’m gonna get some downvotes from this, but I think of the Anarchists as allies, not as enemies. The longer Marxists and Anarchists bicker about which type of socialism is best, the stronger the bourgeoisie gets. If we want to overthrow the bourgeoisie, Marxists and Anarchists need to band together, not bicker. The true enemy is not the Anarchist. The true enemy is the capitalist.

From the Stalin text that was linked, the conclusion one comes to after it is that anarchists want no state, and Marxists do. They are very clear about that.

What will happen then after the revolution? We will form a state, they will say it’s oppressive (the people are not happier when they are beaten by the people’s stick, to quote an antisemite), and then they’ll fight against us. This will be the second phase of the revolution.

My other issues with anarchism are that it’s never really worked out as a solution. It was seen as a possible avenue for Korean liberation from Japan, and they all died for it. it was seen as a possible avenue for self profit in Makhnovia, while there was a USSR led by Lenin next to it. It was apparently tried in China, now Xi is calling them out in a speech. Now anarchists try to claim the Zapatistas (who have said that they see not anarchist) just because the zapatistas have seen some success (and we wish them all the best).

The other issue is they have no solutions. Sometimes people in my party ask them “okay you’ve seized power, what do you do?” or “how do you provide Healthcare in an anarchist commune?” and they have no idea. They have at most vague possibilities, like “the people will organise themselves to provide Healthcare” but that’s not an answer - - you could say the same about private Healthcare. We have solutions, we can take them step by step. If I’m ever in the revolution, I don’t want anarchists to hijack it and mess it up.

it is clear you need to read Anarchism or Socialism?. here’s a preview (i bolded some as a direct response):

Some people believe that Marxism and anarchism are based on the same principles and that the disagreements between them concern only tactics, so that, in the opinion of these people, it is quite impossible to draw a contrast between these two trends.

This is a great mistake.

We believe that the Anarchists are real enemies of Marxism. Accordingly, we also hold that a real struggle must be waged against real enemies. Therefore, it is necessary to examine the “doctrine” of the Anarchists from beginning to end and weigh it up thoroughly from all aspects.

We shall try to prove that, as advocates of small community socialism, the Anarchists are not genuine Socialists.

We shall also try to prove that, in so far as they repudiate the dictatorship of the proletariat, the Anarchists are also not genuine revolutionaries.

The Free Penguin
creator
07d

Erhem. What do you call decentralist socialism then, huh?

a fantasy. read state and revolution to help understand why.

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

This is supposed to be a rebuttal against “Anarchism and Socialism”

  • What Anarchism means (from a former anarchist’s point of view) No leader, everybody votes, not just representatives.

please read the text i linked before you try to counter it

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

Okay, also, why do you consider having the economy planned on a commune level to be inherently “a fantasy”

marxism involves a scientific view of history. historically, it doesn’t work. there have been zero successful anarchist projects.

state & rev will explain why a state is needed. i didn’t link it to be flippant. i linked it because it has answers to your questions.

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

If you read Part 1, you will see that there still is a state. The GPC/GCoL/GLP’s job is to make laws for the whole SWR. However, the economy planning is on a commune level, rather than a global level. The global government might make laws like “All farming co-ops need to be given at least X amount of money”, but in the end it comes down to the commune.

i didn’t realize you were referring to planning. planning must be centralized in order to work. basically all parts need to be communicating instead of operating individually. and planning does not involve simply allocating funds.

co-ops

commune

your use of these terms suggests you are still thinking about this from an anarchist’s perspective. take your time reading the works that have been suggested and if you have questions afterwards don’t be afraid to ask

The Free Penguin
creator
16d

And what would you call 3rd-level administrative divisions?

not communes. though some countries’ third level administrative divisions are translated (usually from french) into english as “communes”, the english word “commune” typically refers to a specific type of community, not an administrative division. therefore, words like “district” or “municipality” should be used to describe such divisions as to avoid confusion.

The Free Penguin
creator
-26d

Also, it’s called COMMUNism for a reason

the word “communism” is not derived from the word “commune”.

Question, are you an anarchist?

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

I used to be

Okay, cool! How would you describe yourself as now?

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

Marxist-Vikiist

For a second I thought Viki was some random, niche Marxist, but apparently they’re just a Youtuber? What are they basing their thoughts off of? Some particular Marxist scholars, or?

The Free Penguin
creator
0
edit-2
6d

I don’t really know, I just know they describe themselves as a Marxist, and I agree with them on a lot of stuff.

Muad'Dibber
mod
admin
15d

Getting your theory from youtubers, is like trying to learn physics from a 6 year old. If you want to call yourself a Marxist, you must read theory, esp those works recommended by other comrades.

The Free Penguin
creator
15d

Okay

Another question, have you yourself personally read Marxist literature, like that of Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Che, etc.?

The Free Penguin
creator
17d

Nah, not really.

No problem, luckily the other day I made this comment with some texts that I think are fantastic introductions to Marxism. Most of the texts I link are short, but they’re all very good, plus you have all of Lemmygrad to ask questions to.

your list is great! i would add marx’s Critique of the Gotha Programme as i think it is excellent for beginners since it goes into a lot of ideas but isn’t as long as some other texts.

The Free Penguin
creator
16d

Okay, but what’s the issue in being a fan of the pre-Stalin Soviet democracies?

  1. what are you referring to specifically?

  2. how is this a relevant to my previous comment?

The Free Penguin
creator
16d
  1. If you read part 1, you would exactly know what I’m talking about
  2. It seems like you are against pre-Stalin Soviet democracy Is it the use of the word “Commune Council” that ticks you off? if so, replace it with “Soviet”

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