Today i had the misfortune of encountering a western “leftist” on Twitter. He stans Podemos (a spanish demsoc party, very liberal and proNATO, they are now in a coalition government with the socdems and they love Zelenski). We discussed the Ukraine War and Russia. I thought he would do the typical “ok the US and NATO are very bad, but Russia is bad too!” so i brought up the NATO invasions of Yugoslavia and Libya to show how the west is manufacturing consent now with Ukraine just like they did with Yugoslavia and Libya, which i assumed he would say were bad. Well the motherfucker goes and says “akchually those invasions were good, we stopped genocides and evil dictators”. WTF. How are these people “leftists”? They are straight up NATOist warhawks. How is this “the left” now? And this is in Europe, where the left is much stronger than in the US! I cant stand this. HOW IS THIS “LEFTISM”? Im so angry right now, what a piece of shit human being, defending imperialist genocides while calling himself a “leftist”. He even had the gull of saying “you arent a leftist, you defend genocidal regimes like the USSR, Putin or North Korea, youre a fascist!”. Fucking unbelievable. Ok rant over.

Oh and he also defended finnish and baltic nazis of WW2 and said “bolshevism is just like nazism”. Plus he said holodomor was real and when i showed him that expert historians on the subject like Mark Tauger, J Arch Getty and Stephen Wheatcroft think otherwise, he said “youre wrong, the historical consensus doesnt agree with you”.

@Munrock
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Being pro-NATO or even thinking that they’re a ‘defensive alliance’ is the biggest tell. You have to have your head in the sand to take that position.

If I ever find out who downvoted this, I will send them a very sternly worded letter

@panic
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And (down)vote them. Voting solves everything

@lil_tank
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There is nothing that will stop fascism from taking over the West and it’s a tragedy for all the minorities who will be persecuted because of the sheer stupidity of the left.

Sometimes I just think that in its globality, the West is just “the bourgeoise of the world” because everyone is so willfully ignorant of the ignominy of the system the benefit from

Amicese
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“Left” is a meaningless political term; political compasses are garbage in general.

Even ones that claim to be ML are usually politically/historically illiterate. They tend to dismiss all AES as ‘not actually socialist’, I think largely due to ignorance and intellectual laziness. Probably some cowardice as well, since then you don’t have ti defend them against western propaganda.

You will find shitlibs in every single mainstream “hard left” (according to their self-perception, not to reality) western party.

Also Europeans in particular seem to have a gigantic blind spot when it concerns the vileness of their post-WWII imperialist acts. It’s likely you won’t even get them to admit wrongdoing in the way they treated Greece after its default. Americans at least are relatively likely to acknowledge they’ve been douchebags to many of the countries they invaded.

I say it all the time but

The left is merely the left side of colonial discourse; thus, it is not only incapable of challenging imperialism, but is also an instrumental part of the development processes of imperialism. This is as evident today as it was in 1850.

This is why I am comfortable placing Marxism and anti-imperialism into its own scientific socialist discourse that has strategic goals that are irreconcilable with “the left.”

At university I was taught a co-opted, dogmatic, and class reductionist version of Marxism. In the next week I was taught how liberals co-opted Marxism. If a Marxism is part of the left, then it is definitively a failure because then it is only reduced to a fringe part of liberal and colonial discourses by academics and also bourgeoisie politicians and institutions.

I say this because I think it helps me make sense of the world. It is such a relief to not have the need to gatekeep the left to keep it pure when you can see it as a working part of imperial discourse. The left is literally a huge working part of the problem. Hopefully it is not overly pedantic.

At the risk of being banned for some sort of -phobia, I have to say that western left movement was fucked the moment euroleft minority activism (tifoil on: fucking CIA-leashed trotskyists tinfoil:off) took over, even if it wasn’t hijacked by libshits. Look at the results - it fractures the working class, and it can’t fight for it’s rights if it’s not united (and problems of minorities are either caused or severely exacerbated by the same old K anyway), after it is fractured certain groups are radicalized the wrong way and you get misandrists, “reverse” racists (just plain old racists) and shit like that and, it’s most ridiculous manifestations give great material for propaganda, because all the right have to do is point and say “Them screeching weirdos over there are marxists, look some of them even say that, do you want to be like them?”, shove horseshoe down people’s throats, that route.

@SaddamHussein24
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Uhhh no? Identity politics has nothing to do with this. The problem here is western exceptionalism, the belief that “the west”, meaning the US empire, has the right to be the world police and that its political system is the role model to follow. Thats the origin of eurocommunism, which is what killed the western left. The idea that “we must have a democratic communism, because soviet, chinese and third world communism is authoritarian and undemocratic, while western democracies arent” is what killed the western left. The 3 strongest communist parties in Western Europe, the Italian, French and Spanish Communist Parties, were destroyed by eurocommunism. Thats the problem here, western chauvinism and propaganda. Identity politics, no matter what you think of it, has nothing to do with this and is totally irrelevant to my post.

I disagree. The left and the right are effectively a struggle and unity of opposing colonial civil religions and the dialectic is held together by identity politics. Being a leftist itself is a fetishized, heavily moralized, and comodified identity (just as being right wing is), this is why people virtue signal how “left” (or right) they are to build legitimacy and manipulate the market of social esteem to either increase/maintain the value of brands or to build a profile. (Which is precisely how finance capital acts.) Class is effectively reduced to just another identity instead of a complex social relationship between humans, land, production, and wealth. People look within themselves for their identity, which they then use to build a politic. Liberalism trains us not to look at the material world or our surroundings in motion with us, but at our essence or at our profile—an essence defined within colonial superstructures. Both major civil religions champion the values of the Working Class ™ while currating the Working Class ™ identity itself.

These moralized and comodified identities have build in triggers that are used to cultivate war mongering and chuavanism. It is so easy to manipulate people into supporting puppets of the empire because bourgeoisie morality has been baked into virtually every available identity via civil religion and its relationship with identity politics.

Yes the erroneous fixation on liberal “democracy” is consequencial, but why was this so effective and attractive? The answer is the liberal desire to cynically include and represent “all” (currated identies) while centering the individual, and to render class either superfluous or gutted of meaning so that bourgeoisie sensibilities can easily saturate everything. Liberalism moves to turn all notions of being into weapons for the ruling class.

/r/GenZedong, but on Lemmygrad!

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