Western militaries are running out of ammunition to give to Ukraine, NATO and British officials warned Tuesday, as they urged the bloc’s nations to ramp up production to “keep Ukraine in the fight against Russian invaders.”
Pretty sure the US is sending old surplus stock, and I’m sure the military industrial complex is salivating at the chance to resupply. Maybe if they send slightly newer stuff it might be over quicker.
At any rate, US support for exactly this type of situation was agreed on in the Budapest memorandum as part of Ukrainian nuclear disarmament. Russia broke their end of the bargain and started a war under false pretenses. It is up to them to end it, exactly like it is up to the US to do so when doing the same thing.
If the world can not unite to stand up to countries starting such conflicts, we shall never know peace.
Currently the issue is not tanks and IFVs, but bullets and shells. The US indeed sends older surplus, but the picture is different in Europe. The German army for example had an estimated 20B€ deficit in ammo even before the war started. Production increased, but it’s nowhere near replenishing.
And regarding tanks: the German Leopard 1 tanks currently in Ukraine are partially the second line of defense for the Bundeswehr.
The production also increased much more than in the whole US. Basically Europe’s goal was at least a million shells until the end of the year. And even when they might fall a bit short on that goal, the US -by it’s own account- is still in the we can probably produce 20k per month from 2024 and onward stage of ramping up production.
the German Leopard 1 tanks currently in Ukraine are partially the second line of defense for the Bundeswehr
Yeah, that’s bullshit. They had to find people (most of them many decades past their jobs in military) to even do the training because Leopard-1s were simply not a thing for a long time. The ones they are sending to Ukraine are refurbished trash sitting in some yard for decades, mostly out of Germany even.
The only still existing Leopard-1s in operation are found in Greece. Then there are engineering vehicles because they were still sufficient for their job. And when they weren’t anymore (because tanks they would need to tow got too heavy) that’s when Wisent1 were invented. Which is a commercially developed upgrade for Leopard-1-based engineering vehicles to improve their power to a level where they can handle modern Leopard-2s again. And before the Ukraine war there was only a single buyer: the danish army.
Yeah, that’s bullshit. They had to find people (most of them many decades past their jobs in military) to even do the training because Leopard-1s were simply not a thing for a long time. The ones they are sending to Ukraine are refurbished trash sitting in some yard for decades, mostly out of Germany even.
And why do you think these tanks still exist? Nobody would buy those thinks, but if shit hits the fan, a Leopard 1 is still better than no tank at all - this is exactly what it’s used for in Ukraine.
Germany also provided thousands of old Strela MANPADS, that were still NVA/East German stock. These were not stored because they are great, but as a kind of emergency-reserve.
The fact that all of this is stored in bad conditions is simply due to Germany’s rather weird Bundeswehr politics.
These were not stored because they are great, but as a kind of emergency-reserve because proper disposal costs more than letting them rot on some shelf.
Everyone points to appeasement failing to stop Nazi Germany, but people are missing the reasons it failed.
Prior to the start of WW2, the USSR tried desperately to build military alliances with France and Britain to encircle the Nazi threat. They were rebuffed at every turn because Germany’s development was far too profitable for French and British interests. The French and British might have took on a policy of appeasement, but they also overwhelmingly failed to recognize the Nazis as a threat (instead, they were more concerned about the threat of communism and allying themselves with a communist country).
That’s not a failure of appeasement, that’s France and Britain perceiving themselves as far more powerful than they really were.
People clearly don’t like to hear this part of the story. But I mean, yes, the capitalist powers failed the USSR and the world immensely by not allying with USSR earlier, but appeasement also failed.
Fascism is militaristic and war-driven by nature. I doubt that the war would be completely avoided if the Western countries had allied with USSR earlier and gave Hitler the Sudetenland. The Nazis may just have waited a bit longer or played it differently but no doubt they would have inevitably went to war. Appeasement doesn’t stop fascists, only armed defense or prevention.
Hogwash. Why was Victoria Nuland handing out cookies in Maidan Square the day before the protests turned violent and the democratically elected president of Ukraine fled for his life when Right Sector militants stormed the government building and took over the election proceedings for the new government? Why did the US spend 3Bn training neo-Nazis before 2014, groups they’ve had long connections with ever since Operation Aerodynamic? Why did those neo-Nazis start shelling the Donbass when they decided to secede from the new pro-West government installed by the right-wing under the direction of the US and specifically Nuland?
You can pretend to be the reasonable one all day long with your empty words. Your position cannot stand up against actual historical facts. The war started long before Russia invaded in 2022.
Pretty sure the US is sending old surplus stock, and I’m sure the military industrial complex is salivating at the chance to resupply. Maybe if they send slightly newer stuff it might be over quicker.
At any rate, US support for exactly this type of situation was agreed on in the Budapest memorandum as part of Ukrainian nuclear disarmament. Russia broke their end of the bargain and started a war under false pretenses. It is up to them to end it, exactly like it is up to the US to do so when doing the same thing.
If the world can not unite to stand up to countries starting such conflicts, we shall never know peace.
Currently the issue is not tanks and IFVs, but bullets and shells. The US indeed sends older surplus, but the picture is different in Europe. The German army for example had an estimated 20B€ deficit in ammo even before the war started. Production increased, but it’s nowhere near replenishing.
And regarding tanks: the German Leopard 1 tanks currently in Ukraine are partially the second line of defense for the Bundeswehr.
The production also increased much more than in the whole US. Basically Europe’s goal was at least a million shells until the end of the year. And even when they might fall a bit short on that goal, the US -by it’s own account- is still in the we can probably produce 20k per month from 2024 and onward stage of ramping up production.
Yeah, that’s bullshit. They had to find people (most of them many decades past their jobs in military) to even do the training because Leopard-1s were simply not a thing for a long time. The ones they are sending to Ukraine are refurbished trash sitting in some yard for decades, mostly out of Germany even.
The only still existing Leopard-1s in operation are found in Greece. Then there are engineering vehicles because they were still sufficient for their job. And when they weren’t anymore (because tanks they would need to tow got too heavy) that’s when Wisent1 were invented. Which is a commercially developed upgrade for Leopard-1-based engineering vehicles to improve their power to a level where they can handle modern Leopard-2s again. And before the Ukraine war there was only a single buyer: the danish army.
And why do you think these tanks still exist? Nobody would buy those thinks, but if shit hits the fan, a Leopard 1 is still better than no tank at all - this is exactly what it’s used for in Ukraine.
Germany also provided thousands of old Strela MANPADS, that were still NVA/East German stock. These were not stored because they are great, but as a kind of emergency-reserve.
The fact that all of this is stored in bad conditions is simply due to Germany’s rather weird Bundeswehr politics.
These were not stored because they are great, but
as a kind of emergency-reservebecause proper disposal costs more than letting them rot on some shelf.The world didn’t start in 2022 lol
Sounds like you’re looking for someone to blame so that you don’t have to think hard about solutions
Removed by mod
Everyone points to appeasement failing to stop Nazi Germany, but people are missing the reasons it failed.
Prior to the start of WW2, the USSR tried desperately to build military alliances with France and Britain to encircle the Nazi threat. They were rebuffed at every turn because Germany’s development was far too profitable for French and British interests. The French and British might have took on a policy of appeasement, but they also overwhelmingly failed to recognize the Nazis as a threat (instead, they were more concerned about the threat of communism and allying themselves with a communist country).
That’s not a failure of appeasement, that’s France and Britain perceiving themselves as far more powerful than they really were.
People clearly don’t like to hear this part of the story. But I mean, yes, the capitalist powers failed the USSR and the world immensely by not allying with USSR earlier, but appeasement also failed.
Fascism is militaristic and war-driven by nature. I doubt that the war would be completely avoided if the Western countries had allied with USSR earlier and gave Hitler the Sudetenland. The Nazis may just have waited a bit longer or played it differently but no doubt they would have inevitably went to war. Appeasement doesn’t stop fascists, only armed defense or prevention.
Hogwash. Why was Victoria Nuland handing out cookies in Maidan Square the day before the protests turned violent and the democratically elected president of Ukraine fled for his life when Right Sector militants stormed the government building and took over the election proceedings for the new government? Why did the US spend 3Bn training neo-Nazis before 2014, groups they’ve had long connections with ever since Operation Aerodynamic? Why did those neo-Nazis start shelling the Donbass when they decided to secede from the new pro-West government installed by the right-wing under the direction of the US and specifically Nuland?
You can pretend to be the reasonable one all day long with your empty words. Your position cannot stand up against actual historical facts. The war started long before Russia invaded in 2022.
Yeah, it started when Russia invaded in 2014