Pretty much asking general questions about the “Holodomor.” Was it a deliberate genocide? What factors contributed to the famine? Why is it seem as a deliberate genocide today?

Please provide sources to every claim you make. Cheers.

  • @dengismceo@lemmy.ml
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    93 years ago

    deliberate genocide?

    no.

    contributing factors

    weather, kulaks literally destroyed their own crops & slaughtered livestock in response to collectivisation efforts

    why is it seen as deliberate today

    literal nazi propaganda, cold war bullshit, anti-communist bullshit

    this episode of the podcast revleft radio goes into the whole story from start to finish and gives a ton of detail

    Fraud, Famine, and Fascism by Douglas Tottle

    The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933 by Mark Tauger

    Natural Disaster and Human Actions in the Soviet Famine of 1931–1933 by Mark Tauger

    Lies Concerning the History of the Soviet Union by Mario Sousa

    this reddit thread has a ton of sources

  • @CriticalResist8A
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    3 years ago

    It wasn’t deliberate; the famine reached more countries in the USSR but you only hear about Ukraine because the fascists currently in power in Ukraine want to create an anti-soviet narrative for their own goals.

    Most of the narrative surrounding this famine has been built by the Nazis to a) undermine the Soviet Union and b) create a separatist sentiment in Ukraine for easier access later.

    The famine reached Russia too, and even went as far as Kazakhstan. Any map will show this, here’s just one:

    Which some anti-communist “news” account tried to use to say there was a genocide in Ukraine – which is only recognized by about 16 countries in the world, and all of them are anticommunist (You have the Vatican, the USA, Ukraine obviously…). Even if we take the data with a grain of salt, it’s plain to see there was population decline far outside of Ukraine, and it even reached Stalingrad.

    If it was a deliberate famine then that must have been the poorest excuse of a genocide I have ever seen, where the population started growing back up again rapidly. This is the population of Kiev historically:

    (Unfortunately couldn’t find nationwide data before 1950). EDIT: they have tables here: https://wiki2.org/en/Demographics_of_Ukraine

    Ironically enough, Ukraine’s population is now on a rapid decline with them losing more than 10 million inhabitants (a fifth of the country) since the fall of the USSR. It seems they were better off in the USSR after all.

    I hope that helps comrade, you’ll need this type of ammo when discussing this with libs lol.

    • @The_Lobster_EmperorOP
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      53 years ago

      Excellent. Currently I’m just saying they’re rightfully chugging Nazi propaganda.

      • @CriticalResist8A
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        73 years ago

        Oh, I also found what bugged me about the pop decline map above. The light yellow legend goes from 1% to a whopping 15%, whereas the next legend only shows a 5% difference. Then it tops at “25% or more” but half the map is 25%. The legend should be linear and should top at the highest rate. If for example Karkhiv registered the biggest decline at say 34%, then the scale should top with a color at 35% and that’s it. It’s purposely confusing to make it seem like Ukraine got the brunt of it.

        Without more info we might as well assume that the scale starts at 15% and tops at 25% – a far cry from the 1% to “unknown %” they try to make it look like.

    • @dengismceo@lemmy.ml
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      23 years ago

      Remember also that the term Holodomor was invented by the Nazis to deflect blame on what they were doing at the time

      comrade, do you have a source for this? it was my understanding that the term was not used until decades later (1980s), promoted by nazi-sympathiser emigrants.

      • @CriticalResist8A
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        23 years ago

        Hmm Wikipedia says “The word was used in print in the 1930s in Ukrainian diaspora publications in Czechoslovakia as Haladamor” but it links to a book that I can’t access.

        Otherwise it seems you’re right, the word started being used in the 80s.

  • Makan ☭ CPUSA
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    33 years ago

    If it’s from the mainstream media, it didn’t happen.

    • @The_Lobster_EmperorOP
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      33 years ago

      I get you’re being hyperbolic, but the mainstream media also agrees the Holocaust happened. Just because the mouth that speaks it is corrupt does not always mean what they’re saying is wrong.