I am not a “patsoc”, i am not even american, you are putting words in my mouth, i hate the US with every single piece of my body, i despise it as an country, i despise its history, i despise everything it stands as an country. BUT i dont want to see it destroyed, even if i hate it, because it would be hypocritical. It would be the same as if Lenin wanted to destroy the Russian empire instead of turning it socialist because it was an imperialist country, this is what anarchists want, we want to fix said country.
What really bothers me is people treating the US as an special country. No its fucking not, please anybody reading this, stop saying its an “uniquely evil country” its not, its just more of the same imperialist bullshit wanting to dominate the world and failing miserably, spain tried it, the UK tried it, germany tried it, italy tried it, france tried it, japan tried it, dozens and dozens of empires tried to dominate everything around them, and they aways failed, with not a single exception. The US is just the most modern empire, nothing more then that, we should treat it on the same way the soviets treated Nazi germany before and after the war, and talking about Nazi germany, we need to remember that on an matter of year the soviets transformed an country that was ruled for 22 years by the most disgusting and cruel regime to ever exist at the time, that passed through the most brutal war in history, on an socialist country.
Why is the US “more evil” then other countries? People that talk about just balkanizing the US dont want to turn it into a socialist country, they just want to destroy it, and thats wrong. And you people are using the example of giving land back to the indians (with i agree with) but you people need to understand: almost the entire native population on the entire continent is dead, the US almost completelly exterminated them, we cant at best create indian republics or an indian federation with the population that still exist, but we literally cant give entire states to make entire countries just for indians, because there is not enough indians to fill an capital of an state of the US. One thing its Israel, an european-american colony that has succeded in stealing of most of the land of the native palestinians, the difference is; the palestinians are still the majority, while the colonizers are the minority, this is what we call an apartheid state. We can still give the land back to the palestinians and kick out the newer colonizers that are only going there because its an apartheid, but we cant kick out the entire american population from every single US state to give it to the indians, because the indians are just an small minority now.
And just to remember, the US is as much of a colony as every other latin american country, i am from brasil, and i can confirm we killed and stole the land of as much indians as the US did, and so did every other latin american country, we are not innocent, so what now? You also wants to balkanize and destroy my country? Cut it into a bunch of states only to give it to an percentage of the population that is barelly more then half a million? Because i dont, i want to create an country that doesnt divide people by race nor class, an just country where every ethniy and culture are worth the same, where all can work together for an better country.
And going back to Maupin, you people are loving to put things into his mouth and put him in the same bag of a bunch of people he doesnt even say he is a part of, but you dont show any proff of him calling himself a “patsocc”, you dont show proff of him saying that indians should not get any land back, or that black people dont deserve the same rights as white people, or him saying that he aproves anything the US goverment does, want to know what i see this as? Slandering, the same thing liberals and the elite love to say about every communist or communist leader; that they are rascist, homophobic, evil, dictators, all of the cartoon vilain stuff, without showing any actual proff. I might not agree with everything he says, but what you people are doing with him is low, very fucking low, you are all just repeating a bunch of twitter drama to create conflict where it doesnt exist. And your “response” to me sounds extremelly arrogant, you are asuming i am an patsoc AND an american with no proff whatsowhever, putting words in my mouth, and diffamating an person without showing any proff.
Don’t be too upset with me. If I put words in your mouth it was by mistake; but look here, you are doing the same for me. You are telling me I want to balkanize the United States. I don’t want to do that. You are telling me I want to surrender the country to the tribes and submit to whatever government they prescribe. I don’t even think that’s in the realm of possibility. Anyone actually prescribing that is living in their heads. It’s not possible.
It was hard for me to understand if you were disputing something or trying to make an addition. I wasn’t trying to be caustic or strawman you or Caleb.
I don’t really pay great attention to Caleb. I don’t have any major complaints to issue against him. I used to pay greater attention to Jackson Hinckle. The above statements as to what Patriotic Socialists believe were based directly from how he expressed it. I’m working on first hand experience based off of what he said with his own mouth. I’m not basing my understanding of Patriotic Socialism on hear-say.
Likewise I’ve listened to Haz. I have a particularly low opinion of the man. Of those two. I don’t think either of them are too well read. Haz especially is more into false machismo and theater than Marxist-Leninist theory. That’s my opinion. Maybe you like him, maybe you don’t. The topic isn’t worth my time arguing over.
I say only as much to express that my opinions are not merely hear-say. What I say and what I think regarding them comes from the horse’s mouth.
As far a Caleb goes. I’ve heard him on and off for many years. I think he’s right about some of his criticisms. My complaints about him are not the same as many other people’s. I have my own mind. For instance, I think individual blame should remain with the actors. I don’t think the bourgeoisie are victims of capitalism, forced into role. I feel that when Caleb explains the history and development of capitalism he is too apologetic and offers too great a pardon. It’s a mild complaint though isn’t it? I think Caleb is well read. I think he knows what he’s talking about. I also think that he’s a little too toothless. I think his little experiment with Patriotic Socialism is an expression of that obsequiousness. It’s not a big complaint though. I don’t like, I said why I don’t like it above; however, that doesn’t mean I have a negative opinion of him.
A lot of people like Wolffe. I don’t. I think he’s a reformist. As a socialist I have a low opinion of the guy. He has his niche. I think it’s well he fills it. Such is life. So it goes.
I’m hearing what you’re saying. I think there’s a lot of valuable discussion to be had on this or that. There’s points of contention. There’s points of agreement. I’m not trying to bother you or get into some kind of fight. It takes a lot time writing something up, wording it correctly. If there’s nothing gained, if it’s just going to be an irritant then it isn’t worth the time it takes.
Oof, sorry for the rant, the way i readed it sounded a lot like you where being an arrogant person, putting things on my mouth i dont even agree with. This is what lack of communication does to a conversation, sorry for sounding agressive, but i am starting to get really angry at everyone here using “patsoc” as some kind of dog wistle. It remembers me of how kruschev and revisionists used the word “stalinist” or “tankie” on people that where against their revisionist bs. I think we should stop using it all together, relax, review what these words are actually meaning, show actual proff and get some actual info on those people who call themselves “patsocs”, otherwise this comment section is just turning into an shit spyral where one side is just closing their ears, screeching “patsoc” and menacing bans, and the other side cant even express their opinion without getting buried under downvotes and angry comments (btw those people downvoting everything comrades PolandAsAnStateofMind and SaddamHussain are saying are cowards, they dont know anything about “patsocs” they dont know anything about what this situation is all about, but they are still just showing blind hate towards them).
I am not a “patsoc”, i am not even american, you are putting words in my mouth, i hate the US with every single piece of my body, i despise it as an country, i despise its history, i despise everything it stands as an country. BUT i dont want to see it destroyed, even if i hate it, because it would be hypocritical. It would be the same as if Lenin wanted to destroy the Russian empire instead of turning it socialist because it was an imperialist country, this is what anarchists want, we want to fix said country.
What really bothers me is people treating the US as an special country. No its fucking not, please anybody reading this, stop saying its an “uniquely evil country” its not, its just more of the same imperialist bullshit wanting to dominate the world and failing miserably, spain tried it, the UK tried it, germany tried it, italy tried it, france tried it, japan tried it, dozens and dozens of empires tried to dominate everything around them, and they aways failed, with not a single exception. The US is just the most modern empire, nothing more then that, we should treat it on the same way the soviets treated Nazi germany before and after the war, and talking about Nazi germany, we need to remember that on an matter of year the soviets transformed an country that was ruled for 22 years by the most disgusting and cruel regime to ever exist at the time, that passed through the most brutal war in history, on an socialist country.
Why is the US “more evil” then other countries? People that talk about just balkanizing the US dont want to turn it into a socialist country, they just want to destroy it, and thats wrong. And you people are using the example of giving land back to the indians (with i agree with) but you people need to understand: almost the entire native population on the entire continent is dead, the US almost completelly exterminated them, we cant at best create indian republics or an indian federation with the population that still exist, but we literally cant give entire states to make entire countries just for indians, because there is not enough indians to fill an capital of an state of the US. One thing its Israel, an european-american colony that has succeded in stealing of most of the land of the native palestinians, the difference is; the palestinians are still the majority, while the colonizers are the minority, this is what we call an apartheid state. We can still give the land back to the palestinians and kick out the newer colonizers that are only going there because its an apartheid, but we cant kick out the entire american population from every single US state to give it to the indians, because the indians are just an small minority now.
And just to remember, the US is as much of a colony as every other latin american country, i am from brasil, and i can confirm we killed and stole the land of as much indians as the US did, and so did every other latin american country, we are not innocent, so what now? You also wants to balkanize and destroy my country? Cut it into a bunch of states only to give it to an percentage of the population that is barelly more then half a million? Because i dont, i want to create an country that doesnt divide people by race nor class, an just country where every ethniy and culture are worth the same, where all can work together for an better country.
And going back to Maupin, you people are loving to put things into his mouth and put him in the same bag of a bunch of people he doesnt even say he is a part of, but you dont show any proff of him calling himself a “patsocc”, you dont show proff of him saying that indians should not get any land back, or that black people dont deserve the same rights as white people, or him saying that he aproves anything the US goverment does, want to know what i see this as? Slandering, the same thing liberals and the elite love to say about every communist or communist leader; that they are rascist, homophobic, evil, dictators, all of the cartoon vilain stuff, without showing any actual proff. I might not agree with everything he says, but what you people are doing with him is low, very fucking low, you are all just repeating a bunch of twitter drama to create conflict where it doesnt exist. And your “response” to me sounds extremelly arrogant, you are asuming i am an patsoc AND an american with no proff whatsowhever, putting words in my mouth, and diffamating an person without showing any proff.
Don’t be too upset with me. If I put words in your mouth it was by mistake; but look here, you are doing the same for me. You are telling me I want to balkanize the United States. I don’t want to do that. You are telling me I want to surrender the country to the tribes and submit to whatever government they prescribe. I don’t even think that’s in the realm of possibility. Anyone actually prescribing that is living in their heads. It’s not possible.
It was hard for me to understand if you were disputing something or trying to make an addition. I wasn’t trying to be caustic or strawman you or Caleb.
I don’t really pay great attention to Caleb. I don’t have any major complaints to issue against him. I used to pay greater attention to Jackson Hinckle. The above statements as to what Patriotic Socialists believe were based directly from how he expressed it. I’m working on first hand experience based off of what he said with his own mouth. I’m not basing my understanding of Patriotic Socialism on hear-say.
Likewise I’ve listened to Haz. I have a particularly low opinion of the man. Of those two. I don’t think either of them are too well read. Haz especially is more into false machismo and theater than Marxist-Leninist theory. That’s my opinion. Maybe you like him, maybe you don’t. The topic isn’t worth my time arguing over.
I say only as much to express that my opinions are not merely hear-say. What I say and what I think regarding them comes from the horse’s mouth.
As far a Caleb goes. I’ve heard him on and off for many years. I think he’s right about some of his criticisms. My complaints about him are not the same as many other people’s. I have my own mind. For instance, I think individual blame should remain with the actors. I don’t think the bourgeoisie are victims of capitalism, forced into role. I feel that when Caleb explains the history and development of capitalism he is too apologetic and offers too great a pardon. It’s a mild complaint though isn’t it? I think Caleb is well read. I think he knows what he’s talking about. I also think that he’s a little too toothless. I think his little experiment with Patriotic Socialism is an expression of that obsequiousness. It’s not a big complaint though. I don’t like, I said why I don’t like it above; however, that doesn’t mean I have a negative opinion of him.
A lot of people like Wolffe. I don’t. I think he’s a reformist. As a socialist I have a low opinion of the guy. He has his niche. I think it’s well he fills it. Such is life. So it goes.
I’m hearing what you’re saying. I think there’s a lot of valuable discussion to be had on this or that. There’s points of contention. There’s points of agreement. I’m not trying to bother you or get into some kind of fight. It takes a lot time writing something up, wording it correctly. If there’s nothing gained, if it’s just going to be an irritant then it isn’t worth the time it takes.
Oof, sorry for the rant, the way i readed it sounded a lot like you where being an arrogant person, putting things on my mouth i dont even agree with. This is what lack of communication does to a conversation, sorry for sounding agressive, but i am starting to get really angry at everyone here using “patsoc” as some kind of dog wistle. It remembers me of how kruschev and revisionists used the word “stalinist” or “tankie” on people that where against their revisionist bs. I think we should stop using it all together, relax, review what these words are actually meaning, show actual proff and get some actual info on those people who call themselves “patsocs”, otherwise this comment section is just turning into an shit spyral where one side is just closing their ears, screeching “patsoc” and menacing bans, and the other side cant even express their opinion without getting buried under downvotes and angry comments (btw those people downvoting everything comrades PolandAsAnStateofMind and SaddamHussain are saying are cowards, they dont know anything about “patsocs” they dont know anything about what this situation is all about, but they are still just showing blind hate towards them).