First of all, Stalin lived 80 years ago and illegalizing homosexuality is regarded as one of his mistakes. Second of all, believe it or not, being a communist party doesn’t automatically grant you the based pass. КПРФ is the living proof. I’m not saying that there aren’t socially progressive factions or that everyone there is reactionary but the party leadership mostly is. Third of all, don’t be a class reductionist. Reactionary views such as homophobia and transphobia are not gonna disappear just because class struggle is over, they have to be dealt with independently and should be dealt with now. And to your “division”. If someone has problem with LGBTQ+ movement chances are they are not gonna be a fucking communist. In post-communist countries people like this are just conservative boomers that associate their reactionary values with the former socialist republics. So no, not tolerating homophobes is not gonna divide and collapse the entire communist movement.
Oh yeah, because social liberalism is 100% associated with communism and antiimperialism. Look at Biden bro, he has a bisexual black woman as White House spokesperson, hes the best communist ever right?
/s
You yankees are really dumb as fuck. Ive tried explaining respectfully but you refuse to listen, basically saying that only socially liberal workers deserve your solidarity, literally neglecting your entire rural population. When did Lenin or Stalin or Mao or Castro or any of them ever say “you can only follow us if you agree with our social values on abortion and gay people”? NEVER. They said “if you want peace land and bread, follow us”. They never said any of this stupid gatekeeping shit. But hey, go ahead, continue this path, its done a lot of good to you so far, when QAnon nutbags have more effective organizing than you do. Keep it up, we, the rest of the world, we dont care anymore. Thankfully the US is more and more irrelevant by the day, so we dont have to trust our safety from imperialism into the hands of stupid western leftists who reject the most basic notions of worker solidarity and class struggle.
I’ve seen this many times in this thread, why do you assume everyone is American ? Also, if one is a homophobe I don’t really care as long as they keep it to themselves. But tolerating someone who tries to push back LGBTQ+ rights and giving them a chance to do so just because they are a communist is a really bad thing.
Also, if one is a homophobe I don’t really care as long as they keep it to themselves.
But tolerating someone who tries to push back LGBTQ+ rights and giving them a chance to do so just because they are a communist is a really bad thing.
Bruh pick one, or you tolerate or you dont, this is very hypocritical, the Maupin tweet you showed is literally saying “i dont support what you are saying on this, but i still will fight by your side” how is this different from “Also, if one is a homophobe I don’t really care as long as they keep it to themselves.”?
You can’t really force people not to be homophobic. You can stop them from presenting their reactionary views, explain why they are wrong, but if they are a stubborn homophobe you will just have to let them be. I don’t tolerate homophobic people, I would not associate myself with homophobic people. The difference is that you should do everything you can do to prevent them from being homophobic and spreading their shitty bigotry but there is only so much you can do.
I assume everyone is a yank because they tend to be the most disconnected from the real world, stuck in their american fantasy bubble, so i tend to hit, guess this time i missed. So why all this arguing? The “outrageous” tweet by Maupin says “i disagree with you if you dont support gay marriage or abortion, but i will fight by your side”, literally what you are repeating now. Maupin never said bigotry should be tolerated, all he said is specific views on social issues should be. Noone saying here that we should be ok with people beating up gay people in communist groups, noone ever said this, including Caleb. The issue is people that for religion or other reason oppose abortion or gay marriage, thats it, thats what the tweet says. This is what most conservative workers in USA are like i imagine, they dont hate gay people, they just think gay marriage is wrong. Sure there is some homophobia deep down, but its a totally different thing from despicable hate crimes. But somehow saying this is so controversial. I hope you agree with me now.
Maupin never said bigotry should be tolerated, all he said is specific views on social issues should be
How do you deal with the paradox of tolerance, specifically, how does an entire revolutionary movement that seeks to reorganize society tolerate intolerance? Even more specifically, how you build a sustainable revolutionary society that is tolerant of the opinion that minority groups should be oppressed if society cannot survive if it actively oppresses minority groups?
Tolerating anti-gay-marriage positions is tantamount to saying “I know that you want to stop others from living their life in fundamentally legalistic ways, but that’s OK, you can still be part of our group that intends to rewrite the laws”
Homophobia isn’t a moral failing, it’s a legal one. No one cares what you believe in your private spaces. What matters is that we cannot build a sustainable revolutionary society if we tolerate intolerance in our vanguard.
First of all, Stalin lived 80 years ago and illegalizing homosexuality is regarded as one of his mistakes. Second of all, believe it or not, being a communist party doesn’t automatically grant you the based pass. КПРФ is the living proof. I’m not saying that there aren’t socially progressive factions or that everyone there is reactionary but the party leadership mostly is. Third of all, don’t be a class reductionist. Reactionary views such as homophobia and transphobia are not gonna disappear just because class struggle is over, they have to be dealt with independently and should be dealt with now. And to your “division”. If someone has problem with LGBTQ+ movement chances are they are not gonna be a fucking communist. In post-communist countries people like this are just conservative boomers that associate their reactionary values with the former socialist republics. So no, not tolerating homophobes is not gonna divide and collapse the entire communist movement.
deleted by creator
Now damnit. Was it Mao or Sankara that said this?
Oh yeah, because social liberalism is 100% associated with communism and antiimperialism. Look at Biden bro, he has a bisexual black woman as White House spokesperson, hes the best communist ever right? /s
You yankees are really dumb as fuck. Ive tried explaining respectfully but you refuse to listen, basically saying that only socially liberal workers deserve your solidarity, literally neglecting your entire rural population. When did Lenin or Stalin or Mao or Castro or any of them ever say “you can only follow us if you agree with our social values on abortion and gay people”? NEVER. They said “if you want peace land and bread, follow us”. They never said any of this stupid gatekeeping shit. But hey, go ahead, continue this path, its done a lot of good to you so far, when QAnon nutbags have more effective organizing than you do. Keep it up, we, the rest of the world, we dont care anymore. Thankfully the US is more and more irrelevant by the day, so we dont have to trust our safety from imperialism into the hands of stupid western leftists who reject the most basic notions of worker solidarity and class struggle.
I’ve seen this many times in this thread, why do you assume everyone is American ? Also, if one is a homophobe I don’t really care as long as they keep it to themselves. But tolerating someone who tries to push back LGBTQ+ rights and giving them a chance to do so just because they are a communist is a really bad thing.
Bruh pick one, or you tolerate or you dont, this is very hypocritical, the Maupin tweet you showed is literally saying “i dont support what you are saying on this, but i still will fight by your side” how is this different from “Also, if one is a homophobe I don’t really care as long as they keep it to themselves.”?
You can’t really force people not to be homophobic. You can stop them from presenting their reactionary views, explain why they are wrong, but if they are a stubborn homophobe you will just have to let them be. I don’t tolerate homophobic people, I would not associate myself with homophobic people. The difference is that you should do everything you can do to prevent them from being homophobic and spreading their shitty bigotry but there is only so much you can do.
I assume everyone is a yank because they tend to be the most disconnected from the real world, stuck in their american fantasy bubble, so i tend to hit, guess this time i missed. So why all this arguing? The “outrageous” tweet by Maupin says “i disagree with you if you dont support gay marriage or abortion, but i will fight by your side”, literally what you are repeating now. Maupin never said bigotry should be tolerated, all he said is specific views on social issues should be. Noone saying here that we should be ok with people beating up gay people in communist groups, noone ever said this, including Caleb. The issue is people that for religion or other reason oppose abortion or gay marriage, thats it, thats what the tweet says. This is what most conservative workers in USA are like i imagine, they dont hate gay people, they just think gay marriage is wrong. Sure there is some homophobia deep down, but its a totally different thing from despicable hate crimes. But somehow saying this is so controversial. I hope you agree with me now.
How do you deal with the paradox of tolerance, specifically, how does an entire revolutionary movement that seeks to reorganize society tolerate intolerance? Even more specifically, how you build a sustainable revolutionary society that is tolerant of the opinion that minority groups should be oppressed if society cannot survive if it actively oppresses minority groups?
Tolerating anti-gay-marriage positions is tantamount to saying “I know that you want to stop others from living their life in fundamentally legalistic ways, but that’s OK, you can still be part of our group that intends to rewrite the laws”
Homophobia isn’t a moral failing, it’s a legal one. No one cares what you believe in your private spaces. What matters is that we cannot build a sustainable revolutionary society if we tolerate intolerance in our vanguard.