• xenith
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    2 years ago

    Sure, both things can be true. But why did you feel it needed to be said?

    Everyone: “Did you hear that Sara was raped? Its absolutely terrible.”

    You: “Did you know that Sara cheated on most of her exams in college and was jailed after being caught for shoplifting 4 different times? What’s wrong? Both things can be true.”

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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      62 years ago

      I feel the need for it to be said because western view of Ukraine is becoming increasingly divorced from reality with western media painting it as some bastion of democracy. The fact that you don’t think it’s valuable to understand the situation in Ukraine is quite telling.

      • xenith
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        2 years ago

        You’re right, it wasn’t the perfect article for my response. I was more responding to the general sentiment of you and the posts you make.

        You can use the term “straw man” a hundred more times but it would be a very apparent lie for you to claim that you’re as critical of China or Russia as you are of western nations. You’re not fair because you’ve assumed that there’s 2 sides and that you picked the right one. Your black and white view of “good guys” and “bad guys” is no different than the political nonsense that’s on any msm channel or website. You think you’ve picked the right side just like everyone else has.

        And before you remind me that I can’t draw that conclusion from this one article you posted, remember that everyone can see your prolific post and comment history.

        So you have an opinion, so what. My whole point is that you and the the other China/Russia fanboys don’t hold them to the same standard as you do the West and that undermines the values you’re trying to share. You can be on the left and still think that the Chinese government treatment of Uyghurs are human rights violations. You can be critical of money in Russia that supposed to help people getting funneled to billionaires.

        You said I’m ignoring the good like you claim that China is environmentally friendly but I’m not; that’s you projecting. Good things and bad things stand on their own. Hell, Trump did some things that had positive results. If I cite them and and don’t mention anything else was he an amazing president?

        That’s how I view you. You picked your team and you you feel good about it because you see the other team as the capitalist hellholes but you ignore the terrible things that your team does.

        There’s no teams, there’s just people. Treating them poorly isn’t exclusive to the West.

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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          32 years ago

          There is no point being critical of Russia or China because that’s what the entirety of western mainstream media is doing. Every possible angle of criticizing Russia and China has been covered to death. I’ve picked the side that gets no coverage in the west and provides a perspective that most people in the west lack.

          Seems to me that you’re the one with the black and white view here getting upset that somebody is providing a more nuanced perspective than Russia bad.

          If you live in the west your primary job is to hold your own government accountable instead of perseverating over what Russia or China might be doing. While Russia ultimately pulled the trigger, western nations played a huge part in creating the conditions that resulted in this conflict while western left has been enabling this to happen.

          You said I’m ignoring the good like you claim that China is environmentally friendly but I’m not; that’s you projecting.

          I’m not projecting anything here, you literally wrote the following in the comment I was replying to:

          That greed and mental illnesses that drive capitalism are destroying the planet but Russia and China aren’t the good guys and they’re not saving us either.

          You keep saying there are no teams and there are just people, yet you clearly have a team and apparently countries you don’t like are fascist. Maybe go touch grass sometime there bud.

          • xenith
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            -52 years ago

            If you live in the west your primary job is to hold your own government accountable instead of perseverating over what Russia or China might be doing.

            You didn’t mention that you lived in Ukraine. You should have led with that.

            I don’t care than you posted something critical of Ukraine’s government. I don’t have a Ukrainian flag border around my Facebook profile picture, much less a Facebook account.

            It would however be disingenuous of you to say you don’t understand why posting a critique on the government during its invasion looks like support for the invaders.

            Your claim about providing people with information thst isn’t covered also fails the smell test. That’s literally what everyone says when they push their own beliefs. You cheerypick information, often from less that reputable sources.

            I rarely comment because it exhausts me. I won’t keep going with this thread so feel free to get the last word.

            I just wanted to put out there that seeing every issue as having 2 sides, one of which being wrong and one of which being your own is naïve at best. The US government sucks hard. So does Russia’s and China’s. You don’t have to pick one side or the other.

            And despite their prolific posting OP is not a thought leader or arbiter or truth. They’re just another person on the internet who wants to tell you what to think. They found their truth and they’re not going to share or even give credence to anything that doesn’t support their opinion. It’s not “reporting non-msm news,” its just one person selectively sharing and ignoring information to fit their worldview. It’s not even subtle.

            Posts and assertions and comments like these just make me so tired and disheartened. Instead of fighting for a better world people like OP pass off propaganda as fact because they have a mutual enemy with the propaganda’s author. I get that OP is trying to feel like part of a solution but it’s not honest and it’s filled with opinion which muddy the already blackened waters.

            • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆OP
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              2 years ago

              You didn’t mention that you lived in Ukraine. You should have led with that.

              I live in Canada, and my government is directly responsible for training and arming the nazis on Ukraine.

              It would however be disingenuous of you to say you don’t understand why posting a critique on the government during its invasion looks like support for the invaders.

              No, it’s disingenuous to shut down the discussion of what Ukrainian regime is actually like by claiming that creates support for the invasion. It’s also very important to understand the conditions that led up to invasion in order to avoid wars going forward. Understanding why the Ukrainian government refused to negotiate with Russia and allowed things to escalate is important for understanding how this war started.

              You cheerypick information, often from less that reputable sources.

              Less than reputable presumably meaning non western media. Also, please be specific regarding what it is you claim I cherry pick.

              Claiming that everybody sucks equally is just false equivalence. Sure, China has problems, just as any human society does. However, comparing China to US is sheer idiocy.

              And despite their prolific posting OP is not a thought leader or arbiter or truth.

              Ah yes, there’s always ad hominem when you run out of points to make. You don’t like that I have a perspective that’s different from yours and therefore what I say is invalid.

              Instead of fighting for a better world, you dismiss what countries like China have achieved and provide no solutions of your own. This has been the story of western left since the Soviet revolution. Always criticizing others for doing it wrong without actually achieving anything yourself and facilitating horrors of western capitalism.

              You claim to not take sides, but you claim that information that doesn’t fit your narrative “muddies the waters”. Wonder why somebody who doesn’t take sides would be against having a deeper analysis of things.

              During this whole discussion, you haven’t addressed any of the actual content in the post and all you’ve done was to try and divert discussion from it. You keep making straw man argument and personal attacks here, and that’s just not going to change anybody’s mind. You certainly haven’t convinced me of anything other than you having an axe to grind. If you disagree with what I post on factual basis, then address the facts instead of smearing me.

    • AgreeableLandscape☭
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      2 years ago

      Logical fallacy. Countries and people are different things bud. Neither are the magnitudes of the misdeeds involved, or whether they’re ongoing or in the past.